The Icesave bill began its third and final debate in Iceland’s Althingi parliament today but it is not yet clear when a final vote will be cast; as there are still many MPs on waiting on the list to speak.
All parties agree that accepting Icelandic sovereign responsibility for failed Icesave accounts in the UK will be very expensive; but the government coalition feels it is still the best option.
The cost to Iceland will likely be EUR 75 million in 2016 and increase each year before peaking at EUR 404 million in 2021.
>Off course I do not doubt your honesty but it really stuns me. What party did you vote then?
At the risk of piling on, I had exactly the same reaction and question.
Niels did write :
>I am quite surprised by this, especially since you are more or less the only person on this forum who always defends the IP and David Oddsson.
Welcome back Niels.
You will notice that most common thing in my theads is facts and merely wanting some fair ness.
When I do see some thing posted unfair or wrong I do get angry and do post the facts or more fair ness.
There is very much unfairness about Davið mostly here.
What mus not be forgoteen depsite ” collapse ” is that from 1991 until the 2004 period Iceland was transformed for the absolute better.
We do have Davið and reconstructed Independence Party to thank for that.
What has happened 2005-2008 did have problems with the banks but that is not Daviðs main fault despite maybe if we are to give blame 20% or so might be laid at his door if you are saying that his Blue Hand did control every person in Icelandic government both Idnepennce Party and Progressive party and that they did not think for them selves.
( Something that is a stretch. )
Current Red-Green government is just so horrible in way it has done things that I beg for any one except them.
I had hopes for Left-Greens in power but Steingrímur J. just has shown he does want power not principles. Despite being a crazy I had high hopes that he would stick with his prcinples in government. But he has not.
So Independnce Party government is again best bet for hope of recovery but still I am getting more impressed with Progressives under Sigmundur Davíð after seeing he and his team in action.
Here is fairly good up to date article about Eurozone problems coming :
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/31/business/global/31euro.html
You have to give credit to Ireland where it is due. Last budget from Brian Lenihan just made is actually sensible given circumstances.
Unlike that horrible reck less one that Darling did make in UKaround same time.
Vilhjalm Antonsen said:
>“the EU will make the British and Dutch forgive the loan”
Peter — London did reply
>Zero chance of that happening, the EU can’t force anything like that even if
>they wanted.
For maybe only second time here Peter you do post something correct.
Such forvigin of debt of one country specifically against EU treaties.
Of course you have to also ask question what happens when Spain does default like Greece in the sovereign debts ( and maybe Ireland ) will Germany bail them out to save the Euro ?
EU treaties specifically say not. And Germans are getting more and more against bailing out other country.
Will Euro system break down into where Euro notes issued by central bank of some Eurozone country is more equal than others ?
Already the German attitude in some region towards Euro notes from so called PIIGS country is one of non acceptance as I have posted about before.
Some time in next 24 months we will find out exactly what will happen.
Fisy, you said:
“As I have state before I have never voted yet for Independence Party. But I would not be embarrased if I did.”
I am quite surprised by this, especially since you are more or less the only person on this forum who always defends the IP and David Oddsson.
Off course I do not doubt your honesty but it really stuns me. What party did you vote then?
“Iceland owes this debt, it will have to be repaid one way or another.”
Actually, I forgot to mention that Iceland will be borrowing several billion Euros from Norway and Sweden to pay off the British and Dutch. Norway will almost certainly forgive the loan and Sweden probably will too. It would be embarrassing for Norway with all its oil money to force betleri-Iceland to pay, plus Norway can use the loan as leverage on Iceland if we ever want anything from them. Plus, the national oil fund made lots of money shorting Icelandic bonds back in 2006.
“the EU will make the British and Dutch forgive the loan”
Zero chance of that happening, the EU can’t force anything like that even if they wanted. UK, NL, and Germany pay most of the EU’s income and all of them have been hard line on this issue.
Iceland owes this debt, it will have to be repaid one way or another.
To Fishy:
>>>>I find it always amusing to see that you [Peter – London] do post your nonsense.. then after it is rebutted with facts from people like me you do wait a while these days..
>>>>And then return with same nonsense again. I will just give links to three time you unonense on this was rebutted in detail.
I think its just simply impossible to have a reasonable, fact-based debate or discussion with Peter – London. As you mention, even after he has been proven to be false, he just keeps repeating the same nonsense again and again, hoping we will not notice.
This “Final and legally binding arbitration” thing of his, is probably be the best example. He has been repeating this nonsense for months, although the facts are publicly available.
To add to the three perfectly good references you gave in your post, here is another one by Gunnar Tómasson, former economist with the IMF:
https://www.icenews.is/index.php/2009/07/29/more-members-of-parliament-against-the-icesave-deal/#comment-87236
How Peter – London can fail to understand the following rather straightforward English sentence, is simply beyond me:
“The personal opinion of the nominees does not commit either the respective appointing authorities nor those of Iceland.”
The original document Gunnar Tómasson is referring to in his comment can be found here:
http://www.island.is/media/frettir/31.pdf (item 1)
Somehow Peter – London thinks this “personal opinion” is really a “Final and legally binding arbitration”, which makes you wonder. He would have fit right in, as an Icelandic banker, completely out of touch with reality.
Iceland won’t pay the money. As Ogmundur the Green MP admitted, people in Iceland think that the British & Dutch will forgive much of the loan, or else the Euro Commission will pay for it.
So the process goes like this: agree now to pay for Icesave, join the EU and get the Euro, Iceland in 5-10 years will still be in bad financial condition but now it’s the responsibility of the EU to help them, so the EU will make the British and Dutch forgive the loan. The IMF and Scandinavian countries might also write-off their loans to Iceland.
It’s not a bad strategy, it might actually work.
And even if Iceland doesn’t join the EU or get the Euro, it can always refuse to pay and not honour the Agreement, using the excuse that it’s too poor to pay.
What will they lose? Not much. Most of the money Iceland will use to pay for Icesave will come from the Landsbanki assets, which even if they are not worth much still amount to a few billion Euro. And these assets are frozen in England – if Iceland rejects Icesave Britain will get these assets anyways.
Iceland will benefit a lot more from the EU than they will lose from Icesave. Iceland currently has something like the equivalent of 40-50 billion Euros in its money supply. Right now, with a worthless unconvertible ISK, this money supply has little value and is backed by nothing. But if it gets the Euro, then the money supply becomes real money, not fake monopoly money.
Plus Iceland will get a lot of subsidies from the EU.
So Iceland gets something like 40-50 billion Euro in exchange for paying maybe 5 billion Euro and giving up its fishing rights (which are mostly owned by a few rich quota-kings).
One of the biggest problems of Iceland is not the economic ruin. It is people´s very closed mentality. People here is educated to be proud icelanders, but not too much educated for being human beings. When they see a foreigner is like if they were seeing an ALIEN from the outer space, really. Icelanders can be nice at a hotel desk, or a restaurant ( because they have to) but in the daily life on the street they wont mix too much with foreigners because that is somehow CULTURALLY FORBIDDEN. They learn so much about their pure viking blood and all those lies ( because they are mixed with french and basque fishermen, irish, and since the WWII with thai, philipines, american soldiers, and go figure what else)… but still… their mentality is not PERMEABLE to foreign things. and everything needs to be TRANSLATED to its icelandic CLON ( especially songs). They always have to be UNIQUE and SPECIAL. The truth is that every culture and people of the world is UNIQUE. The mongols on their horses are unique, the indians in the amazon forrest are unique, the inhabitants of tokio are UNIQUE, New Yorkers and People from London, Paris, or Barcelona ARE UNIQUE, AND SPECIAL.
LETS STOP THINKING WE ARE BETTER THAN EVERYONE ELSE… WE ARE ALL HUMAN, WITH ALL OUR GREAT VIRTUES AND OUR MISERIES TOO.
Icelanders have know such a crisis, not only economical, but also cultural and social. They don’t know who they are anymore and they walk with their heads down, they are angry and feel lost. They blame everyone else but the people they have to blame. They take MORE THAN ONE YEAR to solve a problem that had to be already solved LONG TIME AGO. Icesave, what the heck!! It is clear that those bankers and magnates were the ones who made all the mess, all the illegal things, without any control on them, with total freedom to do whatever they wanted ( pleased by the politicians). BIG **** YES, but know they need to solve it, and quickly, because this is ICELANDS mistake as a nation, and icelanders mistakes for TRUSTING this POLITICAL MAFIA to govern the country. It has taken longer than ONE YEAR to recognize all that. And still, they are going to recognize things with no pleasure at all. Grow up, be mature as a society and as a nation.
AND PLEASE, RESPECT AND VALUE EVERY HUMAN BEING, WHOEVER THEY ARE, WHEREVER THEY CAME FROM. BECAUSE ALL MEN ARE BORN EQUAL AND ALL MEN HAVE THE SAME RIGHTS, RIGHT TO DIGNITY, FREEDOM, RESPECT AND LOVE. EVERY SINGLE HUMAN BEING. AND IF IN ANY OCCASION YOU LOOOK DOWN TO SOMEONE OR FEEL SUSPICIOUS ABOUT SOMEONE, OR CLOSE YOUR DOORS TO SOMEONE BECAUSE HE IS FROM ANOTHER PLACE OF THIS WORLD, THEN, JUST THINK ABOUT WHAT KIND OF PERSON SUCH BEHAVIOR MAKES OF YOU!
AND YES, STOP KILLING POLAR BEARS AND WHALES !
Peter now of Poland does wrote:
>were directly responsible for this debt; they gave a public verbal guarantee
>from the Icelandic state to Icesave depositors as the money was collected and
>then agreed to ‘Final and legally binding arbitration” (which Iceland lost)
>without understanding understanding what that meant.
I find it always amusing to see that you do post your nonsense.. then after it is rebutted with facts from people like me you do wait a while these days..
And then return with same nonsense again. I will just give links to three time you unonense on this was rebutted in detail.
https://www.icenews.is/index.php/2009/07/29/more-members-of-parliament-against-the-icesave-deal/#comment-87182
https://www.icenews.is/index.php/2009/06/26/rejecting-icesave-deal-could-be-akin-to-declaring-war/#comment-83957
https://www.icenews.is/index.php/2009/07/13/the-icelandic-government-is-not-responsible-for-icesave/#comment-86938
Peter – now of Poland did write :
> those idiots also lost an election what gave this ‘Red-Green’ government responsibility to clean up the mess left by your party.
As I have state before I have never voted yet for Independence Party. But I would not be embarrased if I did.
This useless Left-Green government is just horrible.
Even governmentmes that wrecked thing in 1980s with Ólafur Ragnar at helm of finance better than this one.
But they have little time left. This will be last time voters will trust a completely Left-wing government to power again.
Fisy said:
“While the Red-Green government does continue its lurching walk toward a footnote of history, the vast majority Icelanders believe that UK and Holland is taking advantage of them with IceSave ” deal ” of 5.5% interest ( and other aspect ).”
Not that I give a damn about particular political parties in Iceland, but aren’t you forgetting that the imbeciles you support not only were directly responsible for this debt; they gave a public verbal guarantee from the Icelandic state to Icesave depositors as the money was collected and then agreed to ‘Final and legally binding arbitration” (which Iceland lost) without understanding understanding what that meant.
Oh, and those idiots also lost an election what gave this ‘Red-Green’ government responsibility to clean up the mess left by your party.
>but the government coalition feels it is still the best option.
While the Red-Green government does continue its lurching walk toward a footnote of history, the vast majority Icelanders believe that UK and Holland is taking advantage of them with IceSave ” deal ” of 5.5% interest ( and other aspect ).
Representing their interests is the parliament of Iceland that continues do its job.
( And possibly Ólafur Ragnar who may do his job as check on the government as President correctly and veto the bill if Left-Greens do continue this course to put the country onto the rocks they have set with Social Democrat. )
So to court this goes.
https://www.icenews.is/index.php/2009/12/19/majority-in-iceland-want-to-reject-icesave-bill/#comment-106697
@Jimbo.
Your totally right but guess what? NOBODY is going to lend us!!
The goberment says that if we dont sign we will be isolated, but is totally the oposite, once we sign NOBODY will lend one Euro to Iceland anymore, If you owe so much money that you can not ever repay it and the few assets that you own are as collateral for that debt, guess what? nobody will lend you money.
“EUR 404 million in 2021”
Iceland will have to take out a loan to repay the Icesave loan!
Are they goin’ to end this soap anytime soon?
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