Iceland has grounds for cutting diplomatic ties with Israel, according to a parliamentary committee which met yesterday.
As reported yesterday on IceNews, the Althingi committee on foreign affairs has met several times over the last two days to discuss the attack on a flotilla of Gaza-bound aid ships by Israeli forces with the loss of at least ten lives.
The committee’s final conclusion was that there are grounds for Iceland to cut diplomatic ties with Israel over the incident.
The committee’s secondary recommendations were for Minister for Foreign Affairs Ossur Skarphedinsson to arrange a visit to the Gaza Strip and for Iceland to step up aid provisions to Gaza.
The committee does not have direct power, but government ministers are obliged to listen and respond to parliamentary committees’ recommendations appropriately.
Some things that you see from here, are looking different from there.
http://www.9uy.info/2010/06/fucking-switzerland.html
Scandinavians lead the way to lift the blockade for Gaza, marvelous. Just don’t send them any of your fermented fish, they have suffered enough.
I guess that over 4000 rockets launched from Gaza towards Israel somehow escaped the commitee’s notice. That is understandable, after all these rockets were only intended for killing jews, not for killing real people.
(For those who failed to notice, I’m being cynical)
this committees r shifting goal posts with unempolyment at 9% nationally domestic debts unbearable icelanders r crying louder than the berieved.The Gaza blockade has been there for how long?and are why is this minister not cutting ties with Egypt who r supporting the blockde of gaza.
First they should tell Hamas to recognise Israel as a state,then fight for the release of israeli army captain who has been held as a prisoner of war and finally invite both parties to reykjavik for peace talks.
Shm the difference being those rockets killed less than 10 people and were pretty much random killings since their target radius is well over 3 miles in diameter. When Israel attacked Gaza with laser guided munitions they targeted hospitals, apartment buildings and UN relief agencies. The IDF ground troops used human shields and shot women and children waving white flags. Israel killed 400 children and 1300 adults and injured over 10k.
Another standard knee-jerk reaction; from the people that brought you the forerunner of the economic collapse. Because everybody knows that the severing of diplomatic relations is always the first step in a peaceful solution?
Not to be mean-spirited, but does this guy remind anybody else of a leprechaun? I begin to wonder where he has his “little pot of gold” stashed away.
you are aware that the Hamas rockets were statined and still are on shcools and hospitals roofs and among civilains in order to mislead Israel and then show the world that Israel bombed civilian targets.
pity you are not honest and trying to minimize the Hamas “random killing”rockets…
these lies and propaganda prevent from a real and true discussion
even on the level of what’s going on
Why is everybody telling that being lynched, clubbed and stabbed does not justify to use firearms in order to protect yourself? When the European Union’s Summit was held in Gothenburg in 2001, Swedish police officers used their firearms against demonstrators at the Vasaplatsen, precisely because they were about to be lynched, clubbed and stabbed by violent demonstrators.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protests_during_the_EU_summit_in_Gothenburg_2001#The_shootings_at_Vasaplatsen
What is valid for a Swedish police officer is also valid for an Israeli soldier.
only when you experience real threat you may start to understand what it means to live under constant threats. And if you don’t – do you honestly can judge and condemn those who are?
concerning “…split from israel…” – to remind you-the Icelandic president wife is israeli
The Minister might be better employed if he was advised by the parliamentary committee to examine closely how the Israeli economy has adjusted comfortably enough to the economic crisis, than to be advised to express the most extreme diplomatic outrage over the harsh methods used by the IDF in a claimed defense of its territory.
“these lies and propaganda prevent from a real and true discussion
even on the level of what’s going on”
Lest get real shall we.
Whats the name of the country – Palestine or Israel? Where are the Palestinians now? oh, yes in a prison camp… surrounded by Israel and under siege.
They are citizens of Israel, surely? so why don’t they get the vote? Why are they banned from entering or leaving Gaza? Why is the population of some Israeli cities 99.9% Jewish?
You are not running an neo-Nazi, apartheid state that discriminates on the basis of race, uses force to keep itself in power and illegally possess nuclear weapons and refuses to sign the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. Israel was best pals with Apartied South Africa, even offered them nuclear weapons.
Any real and true discussion can, in your propaganda troupe’s mindset, of course be stifled with the simply claim ‘You are an anti-Semite’. How does that work, you are a fundamentally racist state who claims anyone who disagrees with you is a racist?? Eh??
Semite’s, includes many races besides the Jews and most of them completely disagree with everything Israel stands for. The Palestinians.. for instance.
Well Peter, the irony of you joining the discussion on the pretense of bringing reality :)
>They are citizens of Israel, surely?
Not unless Gaza is a part of Israel, which I don’t think anyone has claimed.
In recent history, it would be more accurate to call them Jordanians or Egyptians, depending which part of the rump of the state-that-never-was they came from. Ultimately, that would be the neatest solution (although I doubt you’d find anyone from any of the sides that would agree with it).
Knowless says:
“Well Peter, the irony of you joining the discussion on the pretense of bringing reality :)”
Yes, I know another impossible attempt to explain relality to those whose needs are in direct opposition to it.
“In recent history, it would be more accurate to call them Jordanians or Egyptians, depending which part of the rump of the state-that-never-was they came from. Ultimately, that would be the neatest solution (although I doubt you’d find anyone from any of the sides that would agree with it).”
Ho convenient that the piece of land they occupied and called Palestine, as did the British, had no name, so their homes and villages could be wiped off the map and the population deported to a prison camp.
That was a quick response from thejidf.org to spam this site with pro israel crap
try searching israel atrocities, palestinian massacre on google. facts will pop-up.
btw, nobody has emphasized the ISRAEL USE OF ELECTRIC JAMMING TO PREVENTY ANY MEDIA COVERAGE.. B4 THEY PIRATE THE HUMANITARIAN AID SHIPS. all they have is the photoshopped i meant modified 20 sec video….
I Dont think rockets ever existed on UN Building rooftop in GAZA.
btw, nobody has emphasized the ISRAEL USE OF ELECTRIC JAMMING TO PREVENTY ANY MEDIA COVERAGE.. B4 THEY PIRATE THE HUMANITARIAN AID SHIPS. all they have is the photoshopped i meant modified 20 sec video….
I Dont think rockets ever existed on UN Building rooftop in GAZA.
I hardly think the Palestinians of 1948 are the innocents that you make out Peter, nor that the Israelis of that time were the opposite.
Anyway, anything that doesn’t consider the fact that we are where we are is, frankly, pointless.
Minister Skarphedinsson
I was deeply disturbed to find that Iceland too, through your ministry, has joined the long list of hypocrites in condemning the actions of the one country on this earth that appears not to have the basic right to protect its citizens.
I find it appalling that of all the troubles on this earth, the Icelandic parliament’s foreign affairs committee finds the time for an emergency meeting to support the attempt of a well known terrorist group (the Turkish IHH), actively supporting HAMAS, Hizb’Allah and El-Qayida to break a blockade put in place to somewhat limit the incessant flow of weapons to the HAMAS dominated Gaza area.
Had the flotilla truly been about aiding Gaza, all non military materials could and would have been transported through Israel (which apparently unbeknownst to the Minister, has continuously provided Gaza with food, medicine, electricity and drinking water (as well as other required resources), sources of which were repeatedly attacked by HAMAS and other militant groups using the weapons that they somehow “manage” to import by the thousand, despite the blockade).
Since the flotilla was solely about breaking the blockade, thus enabling Iran to directly supply HAMAS with weapons and missiles (as it has done in Lebanon, in direct breach of UNSC resolution 1701 banning weapons supplies to Hizb’Allah), there is no way that any sane nation could allow it to proceed.
It is also obvious that some passengers of the flotilla flag ship were in no way “peace activists” as can be seen by their behavior when the vessel was boarded.
I would strongly recommend that the Allthing and the foreign affairs committee make better use of their time rather than wasting it debating condemnation of the only nation in the world dealing with Islamist terrorism on a daily basis.
I sincerely hope that the Minister and the committee will take the time to actually learn the facts of the issues at hand before making any additional “particularly harsh criticisms”.
I agree with every word of Mikizo .
A shame for Iceland as a progressive nation to be on the side of terrorists of the worst sort.
Israel has the right to defend itself against its enemy who promise to wipe it off from the earth as Hamas want to.
The so called poor Palestinians who did not fly away in 1948 to join Israel’s Arab enemies against the young state are living well in Israel as Israeli citizens. They do not wish to become Palestinian citizens once that state will be formed in the future.
They want to enjoy their freedom, health care and wealth in Israel.
I hope for peace between the future Palestine and Israel and I am not proud of Israel right politics, but still there is a difference between healthy critic on Israel and this wild and evil hate now spread around the globe.I hardly believe the hate and stupidity in Icelandic foreign office hastingly judging Israel without investigating the facts. Hamas and Iran are amused by this western naivity, falling into the trap of cheep propaganda on the Flottila.
The dead people are a great present to Iran Hezbolla and Hamas.
whoever was killed there was a terrorist, not a freedom fighters!
The real peace activists on the ship -who were misused by terror groups- were not harmed. They were sent peacefully home.
I see the IDF Megaphone propaganda brigade has come spamming here again. Tell us again about the terrorist bombing campaign the precursor to the IDF ran in the 1940′s.
How about the King David Hotel bombing, 91 dead. Menachem Begin, your Prime minister was responsible for that. You have a wanted terrorist as a Prime minister and you talk about ‘Terrorism’.
Nice cut and paste job, BTW.
“I guess that over 4000 rockets launched from Gaza towards Israel somehow escaped the commitee’s notice” (shm)
If you listened to the interview between Hamas and Charlie Rose in the US, Hamas explained that Gaza has every right to defend itself against the occupation. When the occupation ends, the violence will end, he said.
I agree: If Canada invaded the US and forcibly stole my home in New York, I would fight tooth and nail to get it back including firing a home made firecracker at Canada.
Israel doesn’t want to talk to Hamas because it suits Israel to have a permanent state of war, and this way it can continue stealing land with impunity.Eventually Israel fully intends to deport all the Palestinians forcibly to other countries like Jordan.
I commend Sweden and Iceland for speaking the truth.Denmark has been disturbingly silent which connotes complicity.
Some of you should check out the trials of Norman Finkelstein.
“stop the crocodile tears”
Just some quetions and answers for Peter ….
As per the repeated claims of “piracy” in international waters, some basic knowledge of international law is required.
When a marine blockade is instated (and a marine blockade is a very legal and often used act in a war), the nation instating the blockade is allowed, after prior warning, to board any vessel trying to break the blockade.
And yes, for those of you claiming that the situation in Gaza in not an International Armed Conflict as per the San Remo accords – in that case, Gaza is under Israeli rule and as such Israel is allowed to block its ports. You can’t have it both ways, sory.
Questions for Peter:
Does the Jewish nation have the right to self determination, and if so, where? In Poland, perhaps?
Does Peter feel the same way (not kicking out the losers) about the 50% of what is currently Poland that was torn from the German Reich after it lost the war and the 12 million Germans that were forcibly expelled (cleansed) in the aftermath?
Does it seem resonable to anyone that the only refugees remaining from the aftermath of WWII are the Arabs of the British Mandate that for some reason could not be resettled an hour’s drive from their previous homes?
Does it seem reasonable that the Arab nations (all 22 of them) could not find it in their hearts to assimilate 700000 of their cousins (same language, same religion, same culture and in many cases actually blood relatives), especially after they cleansed their own countries of a more than equivalent number of Jews (which were successfully, albeit slowly and painfully assimilated by the 650000 Jews living on the 20% of British “Palestine” that was under their control in 1949)?
Could not the Arabs settle for the 80% of Palestine that they had retained after the 1948 war?
Are they willing to reach an agreement on a two state solution dividing the land today?
Were the Arabs willing to grant the “right of return” to the Jewish settlers that they had evicted from their privately owned land (those they didn’t murder after they had surrendered)?
Are you aware that some Arab countries still ban people of the Jewish faith to enter the country, and others from owning any property?
Get the facts people, they may open your eyes.
Mikizo, you remind me of the Jews who claim that Israel cannot be bad because they are so cultured and have contributed to science etc. My answer is that the Nazis were even more cultured than the Israelis. Citing this and that has nothing to do with justifying stealing land by using terrorism and then committing a slow genocide by means of a blockade.Erdogan has equated the swastika with the Star of David. You can squirm, and scream all you want to, but Israel is causing more global anti-Semitism and is, according to an outstanding Op-ed piece in the New York Times by Tony Judt 6/10/10)delegitimizing itself. It will be left a pariah state with no credibility like Zimbabwe (Mugabe by the way is armed by Israel; Talk of irony!)
and the US already realizes that its interests are being harmed by Israel e.g. If the US loses Turkey its security will be harmed, and Israel has caused that rift.Fat lot Israel cares about America. Israel is using America, but has repeatedly killed Americans and is America’s blood enemy.
Gerarldo
Israel is not always right (it is often wrong), but it far more often right than the press and its enemies would admit. Israelis are also willing to accept (and often willing to correct) just and honest criticism. It is when we encouter armed “peace activists” and police protection of demonstrators chanting “Death to Israel – Death to anyone saying that Islam is violent” that we become defensive.
Since you did not bother responding to any of the points raised by my questions, you resort to slander.
Why and how is winning a war that your enemies forced upon you – “stealing”?
Do you truly believe that had the Arab armies that attacked Israel at its inception succeeded in conquering it, they would had “given it back” for “Peace”?
Did France steal Alsace/Lorraine from Germany, or vice versa?
Did Poland “steal” Prussia and other terrotories east of the Oder?
Did Czeckoslovakia “steal” the lands of the Sudeten Germans?
Did the US “steal” the (well, all of what became the US)?
How did every other nation on the planet come into existence?
Turkey elected an Islamist fundementalist with imperial aspirations and if the US loses Turkey it will be despite Israel’s “acceptance” of vile attacks by Turkey’s prime minister and his increasingly close realationship with Iran (whose leader repeatdly claims that Israel should disappear). He is also the leader of one of the last countries on the planet with any justfication to discuss human rights with anyone (as are most if not all Islamic countries).
I find it ironic that you would seriously make a claim of “slow genocide” vis a vis the Palestinians, perhapd the fastest growing population on the face of the earth (1.2 million in 1948, aledgedly 11 million today).
Your claim regarding Israel’s arming of Mugabe is false and probably slanderous – Mugabe is armed by the DRC, the Chinese and anyone in the international arms trade looking to make a dollar and actually has a thriving small arms export industry of his own.
Your claim stating that Israel in a “blood enemy” of America is ridiculous. Even friends and allies can disagree (and it is America that prevented Israel from pre-empting the Arab attack on 6/10/1973, leading to the deaths of almost 3000 Israelis in the Yom Kippur war).
So, Geraldo, once again, facts and fair and honest treatment with an understanding of the actual situation on the ground. Are you up to it?
It is wonderful to see that some governments are able to take a courageous stand against the slaughter if civilians in international waters by the [moderator removed two words] rogue regime if Israel.
Interesting that there are so many pro-Israeli comments on this, and other comment threads throughout the Internet… I read during israel’s 2008-2009 Operation Cast Lead (which murdered over a thousand civilians) that Mossad & the IDF are deploying an army of Internet propagandists to tilt the balance of web commentary in Israel’s favor. It wouldn’t surprise me if we weren’t seeing that policy at work here.
Bub, do you believe everything that you “read”?
Is it so hard to believe that concerned Israelis (who, having visited in Iceland, take an active interest in volcano eruptions and therefore follow this web site) are appalled when it too becomes just another Eurabian puppet?
Wars are a waste of lives, a waste of property and generally leave both sides worse off then when they began (it took 300 years and hundreds of millions dead for Europe to realize that). But does that mean that a nation cannot actively defend itself against those actively working to destroy it (even when they send pregnant women to blow themselves up in hospitals)?
Israel is a mere symptom of the times, not the cause. 99% of those murdered by Islamist fundementalists have nothing to do with Israel. Until moderate muslims and the non muslims manage to stop this collective insanity (729 dead in May 2010 alone), the death toll will continue to rise. If it wasn’t Israel, it would be someone else (Danish cartoonists, Dutch apostate members of parliament, French police, British tube riders – anyone?).
Ahmadinajad, Erdogan, Haniyeh and Osama bin Laden are all just snippets from the same hide.
Don’t worry, if and when they’re done with us (Israel), they’re coming after you ….
Peter-London
I am stunned by your comparision of bombing king david hotel of the british who denied jewish refugees emigrate to Israel during 2 world war, and sheer cruelty islam terrorists on daily base around the world.
We learned at school how terrible this bombing was of king david hotel while in Gaza all their martyrs are praised by school children who want to follow them.
My Gaza information tell me that normal people of Gaza say on internet that Hamas took them 50 years back in time.
By standing side by side with Islam terrorists people like you will draw western culture back in time -especially london-spreading hate against progress in general and jews in particular.
Europe made a bad deal:letting 6 mio. jews killed and now letting 20 mio. moslem destroy its liberal culture from within.
I see how well London and Britain are coping with the financial crisis while Israel despite the war is enjoying stable banks economic growth inclusive 300 firms listed on Nasdaq/
No Arab oil and propaganda take away Israel technological supremacy.
I feel like living in the thirties again, I hardly can believe the hatred from people like you.
I hope that people in Europe will awake in time like Holland did recently.
ROLF!!!
“I see how well London and Britain are coping with the financial crisis while Israel despite the war is enjoying stable banks economic growth inclusive 300 firms listed on Nasdaq/”
“Bub, do you believe everything that you “read”?”
Do you?
“Get the facts people, they may open your eyes” !!
“I am stunned by your comparision of bombing king david hotel of the british who denied jewish refugees emigrate to Israel during 2 world war, and sheer cruelty islam terrorists on daily base around the world.
We learned at school how terrible this bombing was of king david hotel while in Gaza all their martyrs are praised by school children who want to follow them.”
Yes, its very easy to say tusk, tusk that was very naughty after you have won the terrorist battle. Might I also remind you about the three British Sargents that were kidnapped and executed by the the precursor to the Likud party, the Irgun.
Israel was a very naughty terrorist state, but now uses its ‘official army’ to bomb homes and murder its opponents. Still, Israel is happy to place car bombs and assassinate its enemies (along with anyone near by) when its feels the need. Why the problem with Hamas, its uses the same techniques used by Israel in the past so it too could become legitimate, just like Israel.
Funny thing is, every organisation the Palestinians choose to express resistance to the illegal occupational is attacked and destroyed until, like the PA. they surrender.
“Does Peter feel the same way (not kicking out the losers) about the 50% of what is currently Poland that was torn from the German Reich after it lost the war and the 12 million Germans that were forcibly expelled (cleansed) in the aftermath? ”
I think you will find the Poland would be more than happy to return to its pre-1939 borders, the 1947 borders were imposed by Stalin and millions of Poles deported to land take from Germany
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territories_of_Poland_annexed_by_the_Soviet_Union
Poland lost out massively (77000sq km loss) to The Russians, including my family who lost a large farm. BTW, there has been various government compensation to losers in the form of money.
Are you justifying Israel’s actions by those of Stalin and Hitler? Its a far comparison. Using warfare to steal land and banish the occupants, it is illegal and a war crime however. Not much of a problem to ‘reformed’ terrorist state with a UN veto in its back pocket, like Israel, of course.
“Europe made a bad deal:letting 6 mio. jews killed and now letting 20 mio. moslem destroy its liberal culture from within.”
What a cheek! What has Nazi Germany’s actions 60 years ago got to do with Israel/Palestine now? Absolutely Nothing.
I’d say its better to have 20 million muslims in Europe that existing in an Apartheid, neo-Nazi state like modern day Israel. What sort of democracy keeps millions of people under a blockade; why can’t they vote? What country do they belong to? Why are some Israeli cities 99.99% Jewish?
Peter,
Although you ignore my questions (and the fact that millions of Germans we expelled from the “shifted” Poland by the Poles and not the Russians and by the Czechs and not the Russians), I wll answer yours.
What sort of democracy keeps millions of people under a blockade?
Any democracy that has been under relentless attack by an Islamic statelet ever since it removed itself from the territory in 2005, all the while continuing to supply food, water, fuel, power and other basic neccessities to a population it no longer occupies and, while claiming to be on the edge of starvation, has managed to amass thousands of missiles and rockets, including military medium range Grad and Scud missles.
See the US/UK blockade on Germany in both World Wars, the US blockade of Cuba, NATO blockade of Yugoslavia and numerous others.
Why can’t they vote?
They can, they did, they voted HAMAS.
What country do they belong to?
Mostly to Jordan (Trans-Jordan, East Palestine) since Jordan annexed the West Bank in 1949. Egypt occupied the Gaza strip without granting Egyptian citizenship to the inhabitants. Gazans, right now, to the Islamic Emirate of Gaza founded by HAMAS (not my labeling, see Mubarrak and Abu-Masein).
Why are some Israeli cities 99.99% Jewish?
Why are some Israeli cities 99.99% Arab? Why are some Polish cities 99.99% Polish? In most large Israeli cities, you will find some (and in some cases many – Carmiel, Kiryat Shemona, Tel Aviv, Haifa, Be’er Sheva, Jerusalem) Arabs. In others (especially Ultra-orthodox cities), few to none.
In Arab cities, you will find few to no Jews (an Arab selling to a Jew will be castigated, and in the West Bank , would be guilty of a capital crime). Considering the large influx of Arabs from Jordan and the West Bank, you will find it hard to find any non Orthodox city to be more than 95% Jewish.
So continue spreading the lie of Apartheid – it is patently false.
There are no limits of the use of public property.
There are no limits on the purchase of property.
The are no limitations of political activity (spying for Hizb’Allah is not a political activity).
There are no limitations on access to education.
There are no limitatation on travel.
There are no limitations on employment.
There are no limitations on mixed marriages (except if the women is Arab , in which case her family may murder her).
So what is your Apartheid about, Peter?
Unless it is the Muslim apartheid against Jews.
Mikizo, are you a Zionist or a Jew?
I have been on a holiday last weeks (yes, in Iceland!) so I could not really visit this forum but I must say that threads like these contain some very sorry contributions of people who clearly do not know anything about the middle east or are guided by anti semitic prejudice.
Luckily there are people like Ilene and Mikizo who put things into perspective and I noticed that nobody was able to refute the good arguments they came up with.
In Icelandreview Pall Stefansson recently wrote a good column in which he mentions the traditional scandinavian stereotype against Israel, which probably stemms from a deep rooted naive political correctness and unwillingness to see really how evil and dangerous Hamas, Iran and all the other nice beards are.
I quote: ” Here in Iceland, it’s politically correct to be against Israel. They are the bad guys, always. The Hamas are the good guys, always. It’s a very Nordic policy but this conflict is not that black and white. The problem in Gaza is not Israel but the Hamas.
”
http://icelandreview.com/icelandreview/daily_life/?cat_id=16571&ew_0_a_id=363631
No comment really. Many icelanders believed their financial wizzards and outbound vikings were great and honest people who did a lot of good for the country. Now let them also believe that Israel is evil and hamas is great, or that elves and dwarfs exist.
Same question for you Niels.
Are you a Zionist or a Jew?
Dont think I support Hamas because indeed they were created to add to the agenda.
Let’s say that he’s a Jew (IIRC he is) and also a Zionist (unlikely, IMO, but you’d need to explain what you mean by Zionist). What is your response then Aggi?
One question for you Aggi:
Why do you think nobody bothers to answer seriously to any of your posts?
Any idea?
“anti semitic prejudice.
Luckily there are people like Ilene and Mikizo who put things into perspective and I noticed that nobody was able to refute the good arguments they came up with. ”
First, Arabs are Semitic as well as Jews, so its a pretty ridiculous comment. Israel is a fundamentally, absolutely a racist society, so its always quite amusing for them them to accuse anyone who dares criticise them as ‘anti-Semitic’.
Second Ilene and Mikizo are part of an IDF organised propaganda group called Megaphone, which disseminates propaganda. Propaganda is best left ignored of course, as Goebbels said, repeat a lie often enough and people will believe it. I therefore preferred to let the IDF garbage disappear into the void rather than reply.
First, Arabs are Semitic as well as Jews, so its a pretty ridiculous comment.
Not really:
“Antisemitism refers specifically to prejudice against Jews alone and in general,[3][4][23] despite the fact that there are other speakers of Semitic languages (e.g. Arabs, Ethiopians, or Assyrians) and that not all Jews speak a Semitic language.
The term anti-Semitic has been used on occasion to include bigotry against other Semitic-language peoples such as Arabs, but such usage is not widely accepted.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism#Etymology_and_usage
Israel is a fundamentally, absolutely a racist society
Not when I was there in 1991. Sure, they thought that the Arabs were out to get them, but they were right! Take away that threat and, from my very, very limited experience, it would not be anything like South Africa or even the South in the States.
As to whether some of the posters are rent-a-crowd types, I couldn’t say. Assuming that they are though, that doesn’t invalidate their points, it just means that you should be less quick to accept them. Anyway, it’s an easy list to nail:
So continue spreading the lie of Apartheid – it is patently false.
There are no limits of the use of public property.
There are no limits on the purchase of property.
The are no limitations of political activity (spying for Hizb’Allah is not a political activity).
There are no limitations on access to education.
There are no limitatation on travel.
There are no limitations on employment.
There are no limitations on mixed marriages (except if the women is Arab , in which case her family may murder her).
So what is your Apartheid about, Peter?
“Why do you think nobody bothers to answer seriously to any of your posts?
Any idea?”
Lack of inquietude or maybe they them self’s dont know what they process and are just programmable parrots.
“Let’s say that he’s a Jew (IIRC he is) and also a Zionist (unlikely, IMO, but you’d need to explain what you mean by Zionist). What is your response then Aggi?”
If he is a Zionist and a Jew, LOL, then he proves the point of the Zionist political agenda by the way they speak. Nothing to do with true Judaism. Therefore there is no point in engaging any conversation as Zionism is a fundamentalistic and bipolar concept.
Therefore there is no point in engaging any conversation
That was the insight that we were waiting for? What a disappointment.
“There are no limits of the use of public property.
There are no limits on the purchase of property.
The are no limitations of political activity (spying for Hizb’Allah is not a political activity).
There are no limitations on access to education.
There are no limitatation on travel.
There are no limitations on employment.
There are no limitations on mixed marriages (except if the women is Arab , in which case her family may murder her).
So what is your Apartheid about, Peter? ”
Except, of course that doesn’t apply to the West Bank or Gazza residents or the millions of de-possessed Palestinian refugees in Lebanon and other countries.
This mental acrobatics is covered the comment that ‘they aren’t citizens of Israel’. Israel stole their land and deported them to prison camps (which Israel completely controls access to), but they are not Israeli, Israel even invented a country (Trans-Jordan, East Palestine?!?!) to deport them to.
However, the facts are that Israel invaded and occupied land outside its 1967 borders. The citizens of those lands were deported their property sized at gun point. Entire villages were then dynamited and wiped off the map
Look at this map for instance
http://www.passia.org/palestine_facts/MAPS/Zionist_and_Palestinian_landownership.htm
or this
http://www.passia.org/palestine_facts/MAPS/Palestine_under_British_Mandate_1923_48.htm
and you will come to the undeniable fact that Palestinians have been kicked off the land they used to occupy and a new state of Israel created in that place.
Bromley86
“Sure, they thought that the Arabs were out to get them, but they were right! Take away that threat and, from my very, very limited experience, it would not be anything like South Africa or even the South in the States.”
You are being incredibly naive. If German had succeed in doing what the state of Israel has done, you would have been to visit the German Lebensraum and made the same comments about the Poles. Israel copied the Nazi’s methods with the justification that nobody stopped the Nazi’s treatment of the Jews (and the Slav’s) so they won’t stop Israel. True of course, but using the nazi’s as your role model is disgusting.
Hmm. A little odd that you rail against propoganda and yet link to a site that, when I read the timelime of 1948, doesn’t mention any “bad” actions by Arabs but loads by Jews. Biased perhaps? If they do that to a timeline, I don’t want to think what they might do to statistics.
Of course Israel is not going to give back core territory to Arabs. They’ve repeatedly fought wars for their survival and won. I’m not saying that everything Israel did/does is right, but pretending that they aren’t there right now is not going to help anyone.
And, anyway, I see you lost the argument ;) .
Peter,
Thank you for pointing out Megaphone, I hadn’t know about it before … amusing.
You never bothered answering my question as to if and where the Jewish nation has a right to self determination (and where if not in its historic homeland).
“Palestine” when it came under the British Mandate included what today is Jordan (was called East Palestine, and later Trans-Jordan, not my moniker, the UKs).
You’ve also ignored that fact that Israel (on its 20000 kms) absorbed a much larger number of Jewish refugees from Arab countries than the number of “Palestinian” refugees resulting from the Arab invasion and war of 1947-1949.
Had the Palestinian not started a war the day after the UN partition decision and had the Arab nations not invaded on the day after the mandate ended, there would have been no “Palestinian” refugees.
As for “Anti-Semitism” , you should know quite well that the term was coined to give a “scientific” sounding name to “Judenhass” and has nothing to do with race (as the Arab (he didn’t call himself Palestinian at the time) Grand Mufti knew quite well when he offered his assistance to Hitler).
It is almost amusing that you take at face value the Palestinian claim of “ownership” of most of the land to the north of Be’er Sheva when less than 20% of was inhabited or cultivated.
The last reliable ownership registries of land (from pre 1917 “Palestine” ) showed Arab ownership (as opposed to “use”) of less than 10% of what was to become Palestine.
So how is it that 500000 (1917) Arabs on 100000 square kilometers of which over 80000 are in their sovereignity can claim a right to self determination which you deny to 12000000 Jews on 20000 kilometers of their historic homeland (you are aware that the entire West Bank/Gaza is 5500 square kilometers and you truly “believe” the Arab sovereignity over those additional 5500 square kilometers will solve the world’s problems)?
Get over it Peter. Poland may have lost 77000 kilometers, but it is still more than 10 times the size of Israel and the “occupied territories” combined.
Got room for my family to come back to Nowy S?cz?
Peter,
It seems you have found a new obsession. In the past it was the ‘binding legal arbitration’ to which Iceland apparently submitted itself and now it is Israel being a ‘neo nazi apartheid state’.
In stead of replying to arguments of others you just keep repeating these mantra’s no matter how far from the truth they are.
“Thank you for pointing out Megaphone, I hadn’t know about it before … amusing. ”
Yes, funny how you appeared here.
“You never bothered answering my question as to if and where the Jewish nation has a right to self determination (and where if not in its historic homeland).”
Not to the exclusion of all the other nationalities and religions who shared the land for thousands of years until the Zionist decided they wanted sole control of it. And isn’t the worship of territory against the principles of Judaism?
“You’ve also ignored that fact that Israel (on its 20000 kms) absorbed a much larger number of Jewish refugees from Arab countries than the number of “Palestinian” refugees resulting from the Arab invasion and war of 1947-1949.”
You are equating being welcomed back to a newly created homeland with exile into refugee camp and becoming stateless and homeless??
“”Had the Palestinian not started a war the day after the UN partition decision and had the Arab nations not invaded on the day after the mandate ended, there would have been no “Palestinian” refugees.”
Its there fault Israel stole their land. Ok, how does that justify every land grab and invasion since? It doesn’t.
” Grand Mufti knew quite well when he offered his assistance to Hitler).”
WTF has that got to do with anything?
The leader of the party that eventually became the Likhud party sent a letter of congratulations to the German Embassy on the invasion of Russia. The Italians, Romanians and many other countries were allies of the Nazi’s. Many arabs would have naturally supported enemies of the British.
“It is almost amusing that you take at face value the Palestinian claim of “ownership” of most of the land to the north of Be’er Sheva when less than 20% of was inhabited or cultivated.”
Not using that land at the moment? ok Its mine….
“The last reliable ownership registries of land (from pre 1917 “Palestine” ) showed Arab ownership (as opposed to “use”) of less than 10% of what was to become Palestine.”
They they will be perfectly happy to give it away, not theirs to begin with. What about the hundreds of destroyed Palestinian villages that were wiped off your maps? Never existed of course.
“So how is it that 500 000 (1917) Arabs on 100 000 square kilometers of which over 80 000 are in their sovereignity can claim a right to self determination which you deny to 12000000 Jews on 20000 kilometers of their historic homeland (you are aware that the entire West Bank/Gaza is 5500 square kilometers and you truly “believe” the Arab sovereignity over those additional 5500 square kilometers will solve the world’s problems)?”
Amazing. Why not take Florida, its a nice place and the Americans have plenty more America to live in. They have no historical right to the place, unlike the Palestinians who were there 5ooo years ago as well.
“Get over it Peter. Poland may have lost 77000 kilometers, but it is still more than 10 times the size of Israel and the “occupied territories” combined.”
Maybe take Holland. Its smaller, nobody will notice, eh?
“Got room for my family to come back to Nowy S?cz?”
Sure, Poland has invited Jews back (commies kicked thousands out in 1968). Just don’t start enclosing the country side and deporting the existing residents
Bromley86 says:
“Hmm. A little odd that you rail against propoganda and yet link to a site that, when I read the timelime of 1948, doesn’t mention any “bad” actions by Arabs but loads by Jews. Biased perhaps? If they do that to a timeline, I don’t want to think what they might do to statistics.”
Funny you should mention that, I tried to find the map of the Palestinian villages that have vanished but most of the sites you find are propaganda, mostly pro-Israeli. If you can find real facts, good luck because on the internet Israel, at least, is rewriting history.
“Of course Israel is not going to give back core territory to Arabs. They’ve repeatedly fought wars for their survival and won. I’m not saying that everything Israel did/does is right, but pretending that they aren’t there right now is not going to help anyone.”
At a sweep you are justifying Hitler’s invasion and occupations. He final solution for the Jews and Slavs would have be ok in a few hundred years would it?
At the same time, you also justify the Palestinians using violence against Israel to regain their land. Both sides are killing each other over land, in a way I agree with you. Both are terrorists and murdering criminals.
Israel’s only plan is that the Palestinians surrender and accept defeat while attempting to appear as anything but an ex-terrorist land thief. Its not going to happen.
Peter
Were it not for Eyafjallajokull and a previous visit to Iceland, I would never have met you …. how unfortunate for the volcano.
Sure, Poland has invited Jews back (which is why hundreds were murdered in 1945-6 when they came back from the death camps). Ever heard of Kielce?
unlike the Palestinians who were there 5ooo years ago as well (look at population statistics from 100-150 years ago, the place was practically empty. It had 200000 people in the 1880′s on 26000 kms. Read Mark Twain. And where do you get “5000″ years from?).
The leader of the party that eventually became the Likhud party sent a letter of congratulations to the German Embassy on the invasion of Russia (I’m assuming you’re talking about Begin – which means your knowledge of history is flawed, he fled the German invasion of Poland and joined the “Free Poles” to fight the Germans).
Not to the exclusion of all the other nationalities and religions who shared the land for thousands of years until the Zionist decided they wanted sole control of it (do you know of any nation state that is not to the significant exclusion of the minority? How’re Ukaranians or Wlachs doing in Poland these days, or in 1946?).
What is the national language of Poland? Was Yiddish (10%) ever an official language?
Is Welsh an official language in the UK (Arabic perhaps)?
Arabic is an official language in Israel, always was. Is on all the street and road signs. Can be used in the Knesset (doesn’t meet that Arab Knesset members can spy of Hizb’Allah or support HAMAS).
With regards to the Arab villages of pre 1947 Israel, are the current day cities of Israel on Arab maps, even those who countries that have made “peace” with Israel?
Were the pre-1947 Jewish villages in what became the West Bank left on Jordanian maps?
Are you aware that any Arab that spent 2 years in the British Mandate prior to 1947 and left, for any reason, is a “Palestian Refugee”? That’s how Arafat (born in 1927 in Cairo after his family left to Egypt) was “Palestinian”.
There are, unfortunately, three sides to this story.
One, a nation of 350 million Arabs, with 12 million kms and loads on internal problems.
Second, a nation of 6 million people, with 21000 kms sharing the land with another 4.5 million of the other nation.
Third, a new born “nation”, different in no way from the first, with a claim to the same land as the second nation.
Can the first nation (the one with 12000000 kms) claim that its actions are always “Not to the exclusion of all the other nationalities and religions who shared the land for thousands of years ….”?
Have you been to anywhere in Eurabia lately?
PS The reference to the Mufti stems from your ridiculous inference the Antisemitism can refer to Arabs as well and as a “JudenHasser” one is not neccesarily anti-semitic.
One last note.
2000 years of history have unfortunately taught us that those who said “If someone tries to kill you, kill him first” were absolutely right. Perhaps has we listened earlier ….
This is probably the reason Israelis are overly protective and overly paranoid (and the only people in the world to refer to their nuclear capable military as “our children” and not “our boys” or “the Army”).
It is also the only place in the world where one can walk in a city neighborhood (in Jerusalem) and explain to a tourist that the dangerous area is “over there” at the other side of the square 100 meters away.
History and a border 15 kms from the beach can make you edgy, and edginess makes one prone to pre-emptive strikes (which can be excessively violent on occaision, and make excellent TV).
I do hope that one day Israeli Jews and Israeli/Palestinian Arabs will be able to live side by side in peace, but unfortunately until that day arrives, I’ll have to remain paranoid and not take any wrong turns from the road (lest I be stoned or lynched).
“What is the national language of Poland? Was Yiddish (10%) ever an official language? ”
Yes, when the communists invaded Poland in 1919 they made the official languages Yiddish and Russian. Young Polish Jews were very keen on communism at the time, the older generation not so.
“Sure, Poland has invited Jews back (which is why hundreds were murdered in 1945-6 when they came back from the death camps). Ever heard of Kielce?”
The war in Poland didn’t finish until the early 1960′s. There was murders and fighting involving thousands of NKVD and Home Army underground fighters. One incident was where Jews were murdered by Poles because they thought they were Russian communists. Poland was under occupation until 1991 and the invitation to return was from the government in exile that returned from London at that time. Joining the Free government from the actions of the Russian puppet government is unfair.
The incident I’m referring to happened in 1968 when 20k Polish Jews Communists were kicked out of Poland for reasons that suited the communist party. They have been given the right of return by the restored government.
“Is Welsh an official language in the UK (Arabic perhaps)? ”
Yes, its official in Wales.
“How’re Ukaranians or Wlachs doing in Poland these days, or in 1946?).”
You are aware that the whole of Eastern Europe was re-organised to Stalin’s whim and at gunpoint. The Ukrainians did very well out of it from the land area ‘score card’. The Carpatho-Rus were ethnically cleansed in 1947. The Poles and Germans were shafted, although the land the Russians took previously had a very high Jewish population. Blame Hitler and Stalin for that.