With 83,478 votes counted following Saturday’s referendum in Iceland, 78,092 are votes to reject December’s Icesave law and 1,284 (1.5 percent) have voted to keep the law in force. 2,830 empty ballots were cast in protest.
The first results have now been released from every voting district and the second set of figures have already been released in the South and Southwest districts.
The massive ‘no’ vote is a clear signal of public anger; but also of the fact that the December deal is worse for Iceland than one offered by the British and Dutch since, but rejected by Reykjavik. The referendum went ahead because the President refused to ratify December’s law. As subsequent offers have not been passed by parliament and rejected by the President, there was no way for the public to vote on them. This weekend’s referendum is the first such vote since Iceland gained independence in 1944.
With the December law now out of force, a previous repayment offer approved by parliament and the President last summer has now become law again. However, this has little practical meaning as the British and Dutch governments did not accept the offer at the time and are unlikely to now.
Prime Minister Johanna Sigurdardottir said following the referendum that negotiations will likely restart next week with all three nations as committed as ever to finding a fair solution to the repayment of money lost in the failed Icesave savings accounts.
im waiting for all the Prats who think Icelandics are arrogant and think Iceland should pay to start thier comments, its going to be a great day reading their crap and pushing thier buttons haha
Iceland doesn’t live up to it’s trade agreements as described in treaties with the UK and Holland. Iceland doesn’t play nice with the international financial system. Iceland has lost its international standing as a trustworthy trade partner. It will not recieve any support from the IMF, nor will it become member of the EU. Every member of the EU has a veto for countries who want to become a member of the EU. The UK and Holland will both use it’s veto as long as Iceland hasn’t paid.
Because the IMF will not support Iceland, this means rating agencies (Moodys, S&P, Fitch, etc) will downgrade Islandic Bonds to junk status. Iceland will completely default. The Islandic currency will then become completely worthless and the rest of your economy will follow.
The Icelandic government will be cutoff from any credit from the international capital market and so the government will not have the money to function, not even on basic level. Basic things like healthcare, education and infrastructure will become too expensive to maintain even in its most basic form. The Dutch and British will not export to your country.
The costs of not paying are much higher, as the British saying goes “penny wise, pound foolish”.
I am surprised to learn that Icelanders are scofflaws. The country was living beyond its means and now will not pay its bills. I am disappointed.
Icelanders knew they had to pay no matter what, all this THEATRE has been just a way of postponing the payments, nothing else. But at the end, it just came out to be VERY HARMFUL for icelandic economy and specially icelandic homes. This Icesave problem is taking so far more than one year, they are going to be soon TWO YEARS of this… I guess it was the necessary time for icelanders to realize that they never were a rich nation, that if anything they are bankrupt and poor by now ( and many years to come) and not only that, they have one of the BIGGEST NATIONAL DEBTS of the world, that, by its really small population ( roughly 340.000 people) seems HUGE DEBT…
Icelanders have sold their future ( the the future of their children) for a little bit of economic craziness and be able to call themselves RICH, for a decade of GREED, WASTE AND IGNORANT AIRS OF SUPERIORITY…
I hope the nation will learn from it!
Alan “im waiting for all the Prats who think Icelandics are arrogant ”
Icelanders are not arrogant… they are something else. How would you name a guy who borrows money from the bank, put no limits to his expends, and lives over his possibilities, and at the end he cannot pay for it? How would you name that guy when he even needs to ask for more loans cap in hand at every door?
A fool maybe?
Who would lend money to someone like that? Who in the whole world would trust, do business or borrow money to someone like that?
The IMF, funded with imaginary money, won’t do business with them? The deficit riddled countries of the Euro zone won’t trade?
I guess that they may as well go back to goat herding, that is where socialist policies always take you back to, isn’t it?
Bread lines and worthless currency, Marx’ twin gifts to the productive class.
Won’t be allowed to join the EU? Thats like saying if you don’t pay us we won’t hit you on your head with a hammer.
The English and the Dutch will refuse to export? Thats about as big a threat as Zimbabwe refusing to export. Who cares about the English or Dutch. Those has-beens don’t export anything of value. Besides the Pound is dead and the Euro will probably not last the decade.
I hope Iceland refuses to pay. Fire the politicians that caved into making those agreements. It will be difficult, but Iceland will survive as long as the people are vigilant.
It had to happen: taxpayers have finally revolted at paying for the foibles of the bankers and the politicians who were in their pockets.
This is a lesson to those in power, you cannot guarentee to bail people out everytime they make a bad decision. Sometimes yes, all the time no.
Of course the Brits not only did it but then have tried to con the Icelandic taxpayers to pay the UK government’s bill and on the basis of what to many seems legal flim-flam at best.
Hope this is an end to govermental guarenteed “moral hazard’s” and that the deal goes to formal mediation.
It wasn’t a vote on ” Pay” or “Not to Pay”, it was a vote to reject a bill in parliament on a potential settlement which had already been rendered obsolete by further negotiations. They will be talking again next week. A “no” vote was a foregone conclusion.
The Icelandic government has stated its intention to pay. The payment terms are what need to be negotiated.
Good for you Iceland. I haven’t followed the story but the gist is:
1)Some UK and Dutch blokes put money into an icelandic bank to get higher interest (and associated higher risk)
2)Global meltdown and the risk associated with the higher interest rate is realized
3)England and Dutch governments bail out their citizens
4)Governments for England and the Netherlands then want 270,000 icelandic citizens to pay for their citizens mistakes
5)The large EU governments try to blackmail icelanders into paying
6)Icelandic citizens vote against blackmaail
Am I missing something?
> im waiting for all the Prats who think Icelandics are arrogant and think Iceland should pay to start thier comments, its going to be a great day reading their crap and pushing thier buttons haha
==
Ninth is the importance of personal reputation. This is partly rooted in the medieval Edda poems which emphasise that our wealth might wither away but our reputation will stay with us forever. Every Icelandic entrepreneur knows that success or failure will reflect not only on his or her own reputation but also on the reputation of the nation. They therefore see themselves as representatives of a proud people and know that their performance will determine their reputation for decades or centuries to come.
…
Taken together, these thirteen elements have given the Icelandic business community a competitive edge, enabling us to win where others either failed or did not dare to enter. Our entrepreneurs have thus been able to move faster and more effectively, to be more original and more flexible, more reliable but also more daring than many others.
…
- HOW TO SUCCEED IN MODERN BUSINESS: LESSONS FROM THE ICELANDIC VOYAGE
- A speech by the President of Iceland Ólafur Ragnar Grímsson
at the Walbrook Club, London, 3rd May 2005
I have also noticed that there may have been some agreement that host countries would guarantee the first 20,000 in deposits. I would assume that would be the equivalent value in the local currency (the Krona) at the time of the banks insolvency. A figure that is likely a lot less than 20,000 euros per account now.
Good for them! A private bank makes takes private deposits from foreign nationals, blows all the funds on idiotic “investments”, and the government of a sovereign nation wants its citizens to indebt themselves to the extent of 9000 pounds apiece to make everyone whole? How about “we’ll extradite anyone who ever took a paycheck from the bank, but we won’t pay a dime. Get it from them.”
Hehe! Great NEWS!
Why Icelanders should pay for the private banks? And btw. stupid Brits … when the UK collapses like Iceland and it will be other offshore banks will also want from British people to pay their debts.
Yeaahh this can’t happen in the UK? Yeah right!
Better thank Icelanders for this resist otherwise you will be debt slaves.
“Paying its bills” ? Who’s bills really ?
The bills are for the people who went to Iceland thinking they could make easy money, probably without paying taxes on it.
They played the game and lost but they still want their money back.
THAT’s a shame.
BTW: heard about the corruption of Icelandic politicians who put the country where it is ?
Ask yourself about your own politicians and bankers. It would be much more useful and efficient than criticizing Iceland. Wrong target people.
Pay attention, folks. Iceland IS going to pay. I thought that misunderstanding had been cleared up a while ago. Icelanders voted on the contract yesterday, which is pretty much moot since Britain and Holland have already made much better offers on payment plans and where responsibility shakes down. Takes two to tango, doesn’t it? It would have been sort of strange, given that there are better offers being thrown around, that the icelandic people, who are paying for the (HUGE) mistakes of a FEW, would choose the older contract.
Iceland obviously still has to pay. The whole entire country is paying. We’re already paying for the ridiculous time this whole thing is taking, and I, for one, am tired of people who don’t know the whole story making big threats and putting “Icelanders” down as a whole. My husband and I chose not to take ANY loans except a student loan for him. We rented instead of buying. My husband graduated school, and has been unemployed ever since and it’s been two years. We are fine except we can hardly afford food, which has gotten WAY more expensive, along with everything else. Not only are we already paying, but our 20 – month old will be paying for this bull for the rest of his life too. The reason that this whole fiasco was even possible was a powerful few playing with the livelihood of everyone else like it was just a monopoly game. I think that it would have been a very different vote if there had been no new offers.
Bobh, Alan.
This vote was about a particular loan that has been rejected, it doesn’t mean Iceland has refused to pay or in fact that it is able to refuse. The vote was basically meaningless, except to confirm that given a choice no one in Iceland would like to pay for Icesave.
There will now be a further prolonged period of haggling, with the only incentive being to prevent further damage to the Icelandic economy.
that is a comment of a normal Swiss citizen with some little political engagement.
I have always compared your situation with our Swiss situation. And according our
relations to the EU I feel myself the same uncomforted like most of the Icelanders feels.
First that you voted NO is just perfect. Why you peoples should pay for your financial Institutes.
Why we in Switzerland should pay for the horrible management some Swiss banks had.
Even gold plated companies like our old Swissair they run into bankruptcy. Because the model of our industry / society is still in the wrong believe that big is beautiful. That is what happened to the EU now.
In our case our government paid a lot of money to the banks! On the other hand they have to reduce the social welfare year by year.
In the moment, actually since a very long moment, we are under strong pressure from the EU. Specially from Germany and our other friendly neighbours. One reason is that our System is still better performing than any of the EU members. So the aim is to get our money. As a little still “rich” country we would pay a lot to the EU until we are
in a situation like the rest of the EU only then they will be happy. That means our future aim should be a lot workless an lower incomes. Already now we are a main migration point for the EU .
Our small country increased in a few Years for about 10% of the population most of them
so called high qualified workers from Germany. You can find them all over in Switzerland because they are cheap.
Why the EU should have an interest that Iceland join them? Clearly that are your natural resources, As the EU already runs fishing fleets around the African cost so she already damage the small living standard of that Countries as local fisherman are not able to get enough fish into their nets. So take care stay independent! Why join an model running soon into bankruptcy. What would be the value of Iceland or Switzerland in a big pudding like the EU is. Anybody believe we have a saying in that pudding? I for myself want to stay neutral and independent as most of the Swiss like. Even our social politicians deny.
BEST REGARDS FROM SWITZERLAND
It is a big NO MAJORITY. The first so far since 1944 and on a major financial problem PEACETIME. The decision jointly made expressed horrendous grievances felt by all within and the need for self preservation. Landsbank was a private entity , the owners and benefactors identified, the assets frozen and may not be enough, the duration, means and interest too much, Anti-Terrorist, blockade and etc.
THIS INCIDENT IS PARALLEL TO A CRIME OF PASSION AND IN A CRIMINAL OFFENCE THE OFFENDERS ARE LIABLE. ALSO PROFITEERING IS UNLAWFUL.
So much damaged has been done. Negotiations may even be too late. The best thing is to learn from this experience, make the necesary changes on legal provisions and update them, transparency, accountability, interest and all other relevant matters considered.
Lets remain steadfast and strong in our decesion head up. The future is not bleak only hard, very hard long road ahead. The burden is lighter. NO ENSLAVEMENT FOR GENERATIONS TO COME. Urgent accounts have accrued relevant to this problem have to be paid. IMF and EEC is untimely. THE NEED FOR STANDING ON OUR OWN TWO FEET IS FOREMOST, NO ONE TO TURN TO. A door has closed and lots have started to open. Lets not dwell on the past but look forward to the future in UNISON.
@Henry your comment shows the grimase of the EU. The Icland peaple will still breathe, eyt and laugh and cry in 100 years but the EU will not anymore exist.
Can I send a message to all Icelanders who voted ‘Yes’? From what I can work out you were effectively voting to become my slave (to be shared of course with my fellow Dutch overlords); so I’m sorry to learn the vast majority of your fellow Icelanders have turned out to be too sane to endorse your desire to legalise the collective eternal servitude of the Icelandic people.
Now I’ve got a lot of odd jobs around the house that need doing. So, if you feel like coming over here to London in a personal capacity to assauge your apparent ‘guilt’ (at allowing our gullible and greedy British investors to get swindled by what was after all an obvious online pyramid scheme which they should’ve known better than to take notice of in the ‘best buy’ tables of the Sunday Times ‘Cash’ section) then please look me up and I will accept you into slavery (you’ll have to fund your own meals though); you will have to pop over to Rotterdam from time to time too or I’ll get complaints!
Bobh and Henry? Are you mates or aliases of Peter?
Would it be too much to expect that you actually read the article before rushing to comment, or even express a semblance of familiarity with the issue that might demonstrate a sliver of knowledge beyond the headline of the Daily Sun.
Only 1.5%? I thought over 5% were idiots :) .
I’m proud of you, you did the only reasonable thing here.
We (the Swiss) know all about greedy bankers.
Let the EU moan and bitch, you made the right decision.
I take it all the heads of the failed banks are in prison, right?
Good for you, people of Iceland.
Being Dutch myself I see no reason why the people of Iceland should bail out British and Dutch high-risk savers.
The British and Dutch governments should be far more lenient with Iceland and instead of trying to strangle the country should help it overcoming its present difficulties.
Its money better spend then bailing out the cheating Greeks.
Being from an EU country myself I have suffered from EU’s Kafkaian regulations and I am convinced that joining the EU would be a very bad move for Iceland. So your threats, Henry, sound like good news to me.
Iceland is a small country but its people are very resourceful. Don’t forget that the crisis is worldwide, and that an extended currency such as the euro does not mean more long-term stability, it just means more inertia. So Iceland can recover quickly and watch the EU going slowly down. And laugh.
The economical model of the EU requires a constant economical growth to function properly. The opposite of growth is recession. Well, you cannot have infinite growth on a planet with limited resources. So the EU economical model is doomed to fail eventually, and the sooner countries reject it the less they will suffer when it fails.
Well done Iceland, I’m so proud of you!
Hi Icelanders,
this was the right vote !
Yes ofcourse, the bank was Icelandic, but the shareholders wasn’t !
The biggest mistake of your government was the renationalization of the banks.
If you now can’t be within the EU, thats no problem.
You will see soon the hole EU goes the “grekland way”.
With highest respect,
Joe
David
I would assume that would be the equivalent value in the local currency (the Krona) at the time of the banks insolvency. A figure that is likely a lot less than 20,000 euros per account now.
Nope. The EU/EEA regulation sets the amount in Euros. Even the Icelandic law adopted to comply with the directive stipulates an exchange rate to be used, so if they were to pay in krona, those krona would have to be convertible to euros at a rate that gave 20,887 euros.
Andrew said: “It wasn’t a vote on “Pay” or “Not to Pay”, it was a vote to reject a bill in parliament on a potential settlement which had already been rendered obsolete by further negotiations”.
I think we all know that, but this is just a technical detail, this was how the referendum was formulated for legal reasons. There has not (yet?) been a referendum “Pay for our ex-bankers misconduct” or “Don’t pay for it”. Maybe there will be one, the Icelanders can insist upon a democratic procedure instead of submitting to the decision of a few politicians (even if some of these politicians are well-meaning). Don’t forget Icelanders managed to force their previous government out of office before the end of this government’s normal term. Which EU nation could boast of such a feat? Which EU government would have sufficient respect for true democracy to step down before the end of its term if this became the clear will of the people?
Do you really think all Icelanders only had this specific bill in mind when they casted their vote? Do you really think that another, nearly as bad, bill could be passed into law by politicians alone, without the downtown bonfires lighting up again?
@ Knowless… I have friends in Iceland and they say that MANY people of Iceland live years beyond its means and must have a big car, big house etc… And now complaining about the bill they get…??? That is a opposite…
Good on ya Iceland. When TARP was passed in the states polls showed almost 95% of the people against bailing out the TBTF (so called Too Big Too Fail) financial institutions. Yet the CONgress passed it anyway. I wish people here in the states had half the balls that the Icelanders have. Again, good on ya!
“Take it all the heads of the failed banks are in prison, right?”
Of course not, they are still in positions of power. Some of them are still running the banks. The reason why the banks did what they did is that the Icelandic government and banks are basically the same thing, as its a mafia organisation.
Cornelis “Good for you, people of Iceland.
Being Dutch myself I see no reason why the people of Iceland should bail out British and Dutch high-risk savers.”
You seem to be happy with the idea that you, a Dutch Taxpayer, bail Iceland’s banks instead of the Icelandic government?
Interesting. I’m not happy with paying Iceland’s debt, I vote you pay for it instead as you seem very generous with money.
Yay for Iceland! Don’t let them rob you the way they robbed us in the US (and elsewhere). It’s not the Icelandic taxpayers responsibility, it’s the banks and their investors who should pay.
I also sincerely hope that you never take a penny from the IMF or the World Bank. They have over a 60 percent failure rate. Most countries that let them in end up worse off than before they “reformed” the countries’ economies. More poverty, lower education levels, shorter life spans and higher unemployment. Russia is one example. There is also a good documentary called “Life and Debt” about how they destroyed Jamaica.
Stand up for yourselves, your nation, and your economy
Well done, Iceland!
And to all those condemning you to lives of poverty and hardship as a result of standing up for yourselves, you know what? Doing the right thing usually comes at a price…does that mean it shouldn’t be done? By that logic, we should just let the oligarchs, tyrants and dictators of the world have their way rather than risk anything by opposing them. To that end, we lose anyway. When all is said and done, which is the higher price to pay?
Mary says: ” There has not (yet?) been a referendum “Pay for our ex-bankers misconduct” or “Don’t pay for it”.”
The Question shoulnd not only be “pay for the Banker or not”.
It should also be: “Pay for the Customers, some got much more interest than they could get from larger Banks in there homelands.”
I’m working for a bank in Germany. Our customers have said “What, only 4% ? I can get 6,5% from the Kaupthing Bank.”
Everyone knows, higher interest means higher risk.
If you pay this people, they will never learn.
This money was lost by private companies operating in the UK and the Netherlands. Just because a regulation somewhere places this obligation onto Iceland doesn’t change the matter. The contract is simply unconscionable. The people of Iceland do not owe the UK and the Dutch 9,000 pounds a piece.
And so I say to Iceland… say no and play the great game. You occupy a strategic position in the North Atlantic. See if NATO can stand some Chinese and Russian subs stationed on your island. Maybe some Blackjack bombers fueled a ready to go. The fact is this amount of money is nothing to the USA, UK, EU, and it is everything to you. To keep you from the other powers USA, UK, EU will forget the debt. The IMF will come and the EU will let you in.
It’s not a question of nationality. The question seems to me to be:
Would a bank bail out – GIVE money away – to a taxpayer in financial trouble?
If you think the answer is yes, then yes, the taxpayers should reciprocate by bailing out banks in trouble.
If you think the answer is no, then the taxpayers have no reason to bail out the banks.
” Mary ” did say :
>Andrew said: “It wasn’t a vote on “Pay” or “Not to Pay”, it was a vote to reject a bill in parliament on a potential settlement which had already been rendered obsolete by further negotiations”.
>I think we all know that, but this is just a technical detail, this was how the referendum was formulated for legal reasons.
..
>Do you really think all Icelanders only had this specific bill in mind when they casted their vote? ”
Yes, they did have the specific laws and rejection of terms of horrible rapacious 5.5% etc deal in mind.
Maybe a handful did not. But those that did turn out did have exactly that on they mind.
Here is ( in English version ) what was sent around to every house in Iceland before the vote :
http://www.thjodaratkvaedi.is/images/stories/thjodaratkv_ENSKA_Vefur_m.pdf
But not only having it in mind, there is also an under standing that a deal must be reached with Dutch and British to pay the minimum deposit insurance.
Like I said before in November 2009 :
http://www.icenews.is/index.php/2009/11/28/icelandic-president-urged-to-say-no-to-icesave/#comment-103681
” This Icesave dispute should be going to court for judgement, not to the court of the public opinion .
Of course a referdum will cause it to be rejected. But that is not the same as a judge making a ruling — and appeal to EFTA Court. It is merely ( like this nonsense Anthill ideas ) meaning that it is unpopular.
This referendum does not have any legal power over actual legallyity of icesave monies that EU regulations did burden Icelandic tax payer with.
Decision on paymnts needs to be in front of impartial court and then appeals process to have legitimacy. ”
What does this Referendum Result Mean ?
- – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – -
What this referndum does is send a message of incredible clear ness to current idiots sitting in our government chairs, Jóhanna ” There is no Plan B+ ” Sigurðardóttir and Steingrímur J. Sigfússon that we are sick of their way of doing this.
They did bend over to every thing that UK and Dutch did ask for ( including some horrible stupidlity like the ” Ragnar Hall ” issue++ ) just because they watn to join the EU at any cost.
They tried to keep it secret from every one in Iceland includingh the parliament and ram it through with their slim majority.
And then when our parlimanet and people in they petition to the president did manage to control this train wreck they created, they have the break taking arrogance and plain offensive ness to say that this referndum doesn’t mean any thing !
Yes it DAMN WELL DOES !!
YOU HAVE ALREADY BEEN TRAITORS TO YOU SUPPORTERS, AND TO TAX PAYERS but now you SPIT IN THE FACE OF THE VOTERS ? !!!
+http://www.icenews.is/index.php/2009/07/01/iceland-icesave-deal-“there-is-no-plan-b”/ Yes there DAMN WELL WAS — it has HAPPENED !!!
++http://www.slideshare.net/hjalli/the-icesave-dispute-priorities-and-division-of-claims What is the Ragnar Hall issue and why it matters
Chris M says:
“I take it all the heads of the failed banks are in prison, right?”
No, only small fish have gotten arrested, but there is a report that covers the corruption of the political and finacial system here in Iceland being made public in a few days, corruption is also being investigated by a special prosecutor and he has hired some of the best fraud investigators in the world, like Eva Joly.
http://www.icenews.is/index.php/2010/02/27/althingi-banking-report-delayed-%e2%80%98one-last-time%e2%80%99/
The corrupt bankers and politicians in Iceland are going to prison, and this investigation also reaches Britain, Luxembourg and several British taxhavens.
To Mary:
“I think we all know that”. Judging by the comments so far, it would appear not :)
And I do agree with you, a vote on a properly defined question “pay or not” would have been much better. , and would have put the Icelandic negotiating team in an even stronger position.
Good for you Iceland! You have no responsibility to pay for the mistakes of idiots running a bank. As an American, I only wish we didn’t have one party control (Barry Obama and El Presidente Jorge Boosh are really from the same party) and instead had a true representative form of government which would have voted no on our bank bailouts. They just haven’t raised our taxes yet but instead have decided to inflate our currency and destroy the dollar. Unfortunately the bankers run the world. This is something the slaves in the EU, Britain and most of America don’t understand. They are nothing more than peon slaves for the bankers who destroy the peoples wealth and then turn around and demand to be repayed from the very people they screwed over. People in the UK, your next. When the bankers destroy your country they will demand payment from you. And you being the spineless cowards you are will roll right over and pay them. God bless Iceland! And may the American people grow a pair and tell the bankers to go to hell!
Demy “A door has closed and lots have started to open. Lets not dwell on the past but look forward to the future in UNISON.”
I totally agree, the entire world has closed its door to Iceland, and now LOTS OF DOORS AT THE FISH FACTORIES will have to open for you Icelanders LIVE LIKE IN THE PAST for most of THE FUTURE DECADES to go and clean and pack fish in UNISON….
work like the rest of european workers, abandon your airs of superiority, and viking pureness and GET YOUR HANDS ON THE GREASY FISH because YOU ARE NOT GOING TO LIVE LIKE KINGS ON EUROPEAN SAVERS MONEY ANYMORE!!
HAHAHAHAHA :D))))
“Taken together, these thirteen elements have given the Icelandic business community a competitive edge, enabling us to win where others either failed or did not dare to enter. Our entrepreneurs have thus been able to move faster and more effectively, to be more original and more flexible, more reliable but also more daring than many others.”
HAHAHAHAHA, people, don´t miss that!! This is the usual icelandic reaction, THEY WILL NEVER EVER ACEPT REALITY, NOT EVEN WHEN THEIR STOMACHS ARE EMPTY, THEY HAVE LOST THEIR HOMES, THEIR BANKS ARE RUINED AND, SPECIALLY, THE WHOLE WORLD IS TELLING THEM THE TRUTH!!!
ICELANDIC BUSINESS MEN, BANKERS AND POLITICIANS HAVE SHOWN TO BE GREAT FAILERS… INCOMPETENT AND WHAT IS WORSE, YOU HAVE NOW A FAME AS “PIRATES, WASTERS AND NON TRUSTWORTHY”
ICELAND IS RUINED, AND WHAT IS WORSE, YOUR BEHAVIOR DURING THE LAST YEAR HAS ALSO MADE THE WORLD LOOSE ANY TRUST IN ICELANDIC COMPANIES, BANKS , AND POLITICAL GOVERNMENT…
NOW THAT YOU HAVE NO OTHER OPTION, AND THAT YOU ARE STARTING TO FEEL THE EFFECTS OF YOUR IGNORANCE AND ARROGANCE, now that you have to BEGG FOR MONEY CAP IN HAND TO EVERY COUNTRY ( EVEN THE SO MUCH HATRED BY ICELANERS, THE POLISH PEOPLE, THAT YOU ICELANDERS HAVE TREATED LIKE SH´T, EVEN TO POLAND YOU HAD TO GO WITH YOUR KNEES ON THE FLOOR ASKING FOR HELP)…
WHAT A GREAT SHOW OF IGNORANCE, WHAT A HISTORICAL LESSON, OF HOW GREED AND AIRS OF SUPERIORITY CAN DRIVE A WHOLE NATION TO RUIN…
“But not only having it in mind, there is also an under standing that a deal must be reached with Dutch and British to pay the minimum deposit insurance.”
I doubt that even 0.1% of anyone who read about the referendum (non-Icelandic) has the slightest understanding of that.
The common perception is that Iceland has ‘refused to bail out the banks’ and its the ‘little people standing up against the evil bankers’.
When its nothing of the sort; its a rejection of a particular law about a particular interest payment rate for the depositor protection loan.
I wonder if the ratings agencies will understand that fundamentally this is irrelevant for Iceland or anyone else, negotiations continue for terms of the debt. Give it another year before it becomes an serious issue.
Knowless says:
“Bobh and Henry? Are you mates or aliases of Peter?”
Please….
Fact is, the UK and DK bought all of their investor’s accounts. Now Iceland if faced with only two consolidated account holders, the UK and DK. Entities or persons are not allowed to hold multiple accounts to circumvent IDIGF rules. Therefore these UK and DK “accounts” are guaranteed to the full amount of € 20,887 each. Sounds just about what they are worth these days!
Unfortunately the Icelandic Depositors’ and Investors’ Guarantee Fund (read FUND, not people or government of Iceland) is DEPLETED. There is no further obligation! Iceland is not required to pay UK and DK the sums of € 20,887 each, not even close to the demand of 5+ billion!
Seriously guys, don’t sweat it. Don’t pay the UK a dime – they issued the banking licences and they ultimately bear the risk and consequences of those actions.
I would politely inform Minister Darling that if he doesn’t “shut it” (to use a British phrase) you will be seeking to extend your military cooperation with Russia. Now, how would the UK feel about having a large base full of Russian military capability parked to the west of the humble isle? Not too great I’d imagine. “But that’s blackmail”, they’d cry! “Now you know what it feels like”, you could retort.
It would cost well over 3 Bn to build a new network of radar stations! And then they would still have a potential new Cuban missile crisis sitting on the doorstep.
On second thoughts, better to just call it even and walk away.
As is usual when icelandic news hits the headlines all of a sudden a lot of people start posting while their factual knowledge of the matter is very scant.
Reactions range from: “hahaha, do not pay” to “you bunch of cheaters, you mst pay” .
Reality is that this referendum has rejected one particular deal about repaying which, I admit , was not fair towards Iceland.
However, an agreement has to be reached and negotiations are continuing.
Hopefully a satisfactory deal can be reached because Iceland needs it more than UK/NL.
Iceland needs access to the international capital market, otherwise no lifting of currency restricions and no economic recovery.
Morevover I beleive in 2011 a lot of icelandic government bonds are due and Iceland needs cash in order to meet this obligation.
The longer this whole mess takes the more difficult it will be for Iceland.
Icelandic financial status has been downgraded to junk status which means that Iceland will have to pay even higher interest rates for loans.
Probably in the near future Iceland will have to pay more than 5,5% on ordinary loans.
So hopefully an agreemnet can be reached.
“So hopefully an agreemnet can be reached.”
Not soon, the Election is on; agreeing soft terms for Iceland now would be suicide for Labour.
Iceland May Face Mid-2011 Icesave Delay, Moody’s Says
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=acN35zVvM0wU&pos=7
“Paying back” is generally reserved for those that got something.
Icelandic people are not responsible for the reckless corruptions of bankers and the reckless financial terrorism created by the UK and Holland.
Please don’t pay that blackmail, it will not be worth.
Why not put your energy into changing your government into something less corrupt? Let us all learn from your experience.
@Niels
I agree with you entirely. Iceland needs some form of settlement and rather quickly, preferably before elections in the UK and the Netherlands. But the British should put a much more generous offer on the table – this situation is too serious to just consider as a financial transaction, as it includes the social stability and welfare of one of our neighbouring states.
If companies are “too big to fail”, then shouldn’t countries also be “too big to fail”?
Britain only just finished paying off debt because of World War 2. The US and Canada lent money on very generous terms with a long period to repay. We should do the same for Iceland. Where is the strategic vision from the British government? Sigh.
Other things that need to be overhauled: European rules on banking regulations!
Icelandic people are not responsible for the reckless corruptions of bankers
Actually, they are. Whether you believe that the Icelandic state was bound to give a guarantee of not, and whether you believe that responsibility for the regulation of the banks was shared to some extent or not, Iceland was the lead regulator.
The Icelandic government allowed some pretty incredible stuff to occur, even compared to other banks in other countries. Iceland is a sovereign state. Therefore, the people of Iceland are responsible.
@Andrew
How dare you compare the situation of the UK in WW II with the situation of Iceland today?
I do hope you remember that in WW II the UK were the good guys, and while you can call the Icelanders a lot of things, they were certainly not innocent in this affair. They failed to regulate their banks properly, went along with massive speculation by taking out loans in Yens and other foreign currencies and now pretend they are ignorant fishermen, who shouldn’t be blamed for any of this…
Niels said
“As is usual when icelandic news hits the headlines all of a sudden a lot of people start posting while their factual knowledge of the matter is very scant.”
Niels, it was for this reason – especially if a substantial number of posts were from Icelanders that I have been too dismayed to post : (
You also said
“Morevover I beleive in 2011 a lot of icelandic government bonds are due and Iceland needs cash in order to meet this obligation.”
Time and tide wait for no man – neither repayment of bonds also!
I fear that Icelanders are celebrating a victory that never was. The position today is no different to that before the referendum.
Great post Niels!
Brian the American, what a man, I agree with almost everything you say. Your comments regarding bailouts etc are almost spot on. We in UK feel as angry as anyone, angry about the banks, the people running these banks, angry about the people that are losing their jobs and businesses, angry about people who are losing their houses but spineless cowards? we also feel angry about the soldiers,from all countries, who are dying in other parts of the world.
@Andrew:Other things that need to be overhauled: European rules on banking regulations!
Yes I agree with that and I am sure this will happen.
Even in a country like the Netherlands where there is a functioning deposit guarantee system in the banking sector it is clear that things must change.
End of last year a bank (DSB) went bankrupt and according to the guarantee system depositors were bailed out to a maximum of 100.000 euro.
This worked out fine but the problem is that other banks need to pay this sum (hoping to get back a little bit from DSB after its liquidation).
According to the regulations costs are divided according to market share in the dutch savings market.
So this means that the bank with the biggest share pays the most.
In this case it is Rabobank, one of the most solid banks in the world (one of the very few triple A banks).
Rabobank had to pay out 200 million euro to DSB depositors and they are indignant: they did not mess up, they did not play risky games, they are solid and stable…and as a reward they have to pay most for the failure of s**ty institutions like DSB.
@Leo
“March 8, 2010 at 5:51 pm
@Andrew
How dare you compare the situation of the UK in WW II with the situation of Iceland today?”
The vast majority of the Icelandic people did not do anything wrong and could not have influenced events directly. I hope that the British will show some generosity to help those people out. A house cleaning of the rogues in Icelandic society would be good and might encourage this.
I urge all Europeans to side with Icelanders and Iceland in their outright rejection of IceSave. The handful of dysfunctional Bankers of Iceland cannot bankrupt their entire nation any more than the handful of dysfunctional Bankers of Greece, Ireland or Dubai can bankrupt their nations. Tough luck to all the Foreigners who put so much of their money into pyramid scheme accounts and commercially invalid paper. It would be interesting to learn how many Icelanders actually lost their money in this reckless adventure. It’s simply a banking failure because there is no deposit insurance large enough to cover the losses of such drunken excess. Iceland – or any other country – should never have been turned into their own personal Las Vegas. This has certainly united the people of Iceland like never before. Stand up and support them. Their cause is everyone’s!
“The handful of dysfunctional Bankers of Iceland cannot bankrupt their entire nation any more than the handful of dysfunctional Bankers of Greece, Ireland or Dubai can bankrupt their nations”
Well, they have made a pretty good attempt to do so.
“Tough luck to all the Foreigners who put so much of their money into pyramid scheme accounts and commercially invalid paper”.
They were depositors who thought that they were protected by a deposit insurance scheme. Under european banking regulations, nationality is not grounds for discrimination in treatment of the depositors. I assume all your money is safe in your bank. How would you feel if it disappeared ?
Terry wrote :
>The position today is no different to that before the referendum.
Not attidue of Icelandic taxpayer but New Labour in particular has finally realized that different way was needed and that they propoganda ” Icelanders are thieves ” ideas has backfired.
( This is is very clear from recent conciliatary comment of Alistair Darling+ but of course most clear from Peter London posts since referedum result — so much that I think it is not him posting — the contrast in recent posts is so much. )
+http://www.icenews.is/index.php/2010/03/08/darling-pointless-to-push-iceland-too-hard/
Terry :-)
I do think however that there is now room for reaching an agreement that can be , more or less, acceptable to all.
After all the goberments in all 3 countries involved are more or less imploding.
New elections are approaching fast.
I am certain that for instance the dutch christian democrats (who are now handling the government alone, before the general elections in june) will want to get a deal on Icesave: in doing so they can show the voters that they can get things done and this could help them to avoid the crushing defeat which the polls are expecting for them.
Recent statements from the UK (Darlng) seem to give rise to optimism too.
If the icelandic side manages to negotiate professionally something good might come out of it.
“Peter London posts since referedum result — so much that I think it is not him posting — the contrast in recent posts is so much. )”
Fisy, I’ve realised that the UK’s best option is simply to wait for as long as it takes. There is no rush, in fact I doubt anything will happen to after the elections in May. Time is on the UK/NL’s side now, after offering a 2 year interest free period the ball is now in Icelands court.
Icelandic politicians talk about doing a deal soon; why, whats the rush :)
Hello Niels
You said.
“I do think however that there is now room for reaching an agreement that can be , more or less, acceptable to all.
After all the goberments in all 3 countries involved are more or less imploding.
New elections are approaching fast.”
I like that you are a fair minded optimist Niels – but am not convinced that these factors change matters.
Within the UK – Iceland and IceSave doesn’t command public attention. The recent referendum achieved scant transient coverage….Not the stuff of election issues.
In response to my comment:
>I fear that Icelanders are celebrating a victory that never was. The position today is no different to that before the referendum.
Fisy said.
“Not attidue of Icelandic taxpayer but New Labour in particular has finally realized that different way was needed and that they propoganda ” Icelanders are thieves ” ideas has backfired.”
Fisy, I am unsure that anything has ‘backfired’ – merely a different approach.
Peter summarises the possibility well saying.
“Fisy, I’ve realised that the UK’s best option is simply to wait for as long as it takes. There is no rush, in fact I doubt anything will happen to after the elections in May. Time is on the UK/NL’s side now, after offering a 2 year interest free period the ball is now in Icelands court.
Icelandic politicians talk about doing a deal soon; why, whats the rush :)
No rush for those Iceland owes, but how long before Iceland needs outside funding, currenly blocked – but needed to avoid greater catastrophe?
“DH says:
March 8, 2010 at 8:19 am
Seriously guys, don’t sweat it. Don’t pay the UK a dime – they issued the banking licences and they ultimately bear the risk and consequences of those actions”
Not true but why let FACTS get in the way of brain dead posting
I’ve realised that the UK’s best option is simply to wait for as long as it takes.
The Norwegians may be about to break ranks with the rest of the Nordics. Hopefully there will be more after the Nordic meeting tomorrow.
http://icelandreview.com/icelandreview/daily_news/?cat_id=16539&ew_0_a_id=359173
So maybe this will make it to court after all.
“The Norwegians may be about to break ranks with the rest of the Nordics. Hopefully there will be more after the Nordic meeting tomorrow.”
Iceland has presumably already agree to the Nordic loans so this could be an excellent way of resolving this dispute. UK/NL get their money and the Nordic fulfil the – apparent – promise to help Iceland in this sort of situation. The UK ambassador was pushing for Norway to stump up in that leaked document.
The entire repayment term discussions become irrelevant as its unconnected to UK/NL in any case; that’s Iceland and its lenders problem.
Andrew says: “They were depositors who thought that they were protected by a deposit insurance scheme. Under european banking regulations, nationality is not grounds for discrimination in treatment of the depositors. I assume all your money is safe in your bank. How would you feel if it disappeared ?”
—————————————————
Well, you assume wrong, half of our so called safe money disappeared overnight.
Even the foreign currency accounts are subject to severe currency restrictions.
If only the foreign residents who deposited money in a foreign branch of Landsbanki were subject to exactly the same treatment as the Iceland depositers::)
“if only the foreign residents who deposited money in a foreign branch of Landsbanki were subject to exactly the same treatment as the Iceland depositers::)”
Don’t you really mean, I wish our government had treated us better? Like the British government treated their nationals who had deposited in Icesave for example?
One of the points of the European banking laws is that everyone, no matter where they bank, and which country they reside in, should be treated the same. The deposit insurance is supposed to prevent this from happening for accounts with deposits of up to 20,000 (approximately) Euros.
Knowless,
Half your money disappeared because Iceland, unlike the EU countries, had a completely unsustainable banking system.
While icelandic depositors got back at least part of their deposits foreigners got nothing so juridically they seem to have a point when they complain about discrimination based on nationality.
Dutch depositors in Icesave who had more than 100k in Icesave got no compensation for the amount over 100k and they filed a lawsuit against Iceland at the european court.
While I do not sympathize with them they seem to have a point and when they win the case a new icesave dispute seems likely.
If only the foreign residents who deposited money in a foreign branch of Landsbanki were subject to exactly the same treatment as the Iceland depositers::)
Actually, interestingly enough, I think that if the TIF had compensated Icelandic and foreign depositors equally then those Icelanders would have been entitled to their 1.7m ISK at a fixed euro exchange rate to give them 20,887 euros.
I imagine that would have been a preferable situation for many, if you ignore the chaos that would arise from the closure of all three banks.
>>>>>>>>Actually, interestingly enough, I think that if the TIF had compensated Icelandic and foreign depositors equally then those Icelanders would have been entitled to their 1.7m ISK at a fixed euro exchange rate to give them 20,887 euros.
I imagine that would have been a preferable situation for many, if you ignore the chaos that would arise from the closure of all three banks<<<<<<<<<
It doesnt work that way bromley, you have to pay out in a legal currency equivalent to 20,887 Euro. And ISK isnt a legal currency in the NL or the UK where the accounts are located, there you have to pay out in Euro's or Pounds respectively. That would be equal treatment.
And i also would fail to see how annyone appart from the icelandic side of the argument would prefer beeing payed out in what is monopoly money outside of iceland. Especially concidering the Icelandic goverment can print unlimeted amounts of it.
bezoeker
It doesnt work that way bromley, you have to pay out in a legal currency equivalent to 20,887 Euro.
Are you sure about that? When I last looked at 94/19/EC to check, it looked to me like it said 20,000 ECU and made no mention of anything else. So the EU regs appear to require euros (but not legal currency of the host state).
Anyway, my point was that the Icelandic law on deposit guarantees talks of a compensation limit of ISK 1.7m. But it also says that that amount is linked to the euro exchange rate back in 1999 (which gives 20,887 euros). What I couldn’t see is who this linked euro exchange rate would apply to, so I assumed that there was no reason why it wouldn’t apply to Icelanders as well as foreigners.
http://eng.idnadarraduneyti.is/laws-and-regulations/nr/1165