“Iceland is without friends in this war, with the exception of the Faroe Islands,” says Eirikur Tomasson, Law Professor during an interview with Icelandic State television.
“In the ‘Cod Wars’ we could deal with possible sanctions from the British by selling our fish to Russia; and at that time the US had an army base in Iceland and needed our help, so we had back-up from them also. Now the US has abandoned us and the Cold War is gone, and with it Russia,” he added.
“I am not sure that direct communication with the British and Dutch will take this matter any further; the question is now whether we need to get third party intervention from a nation like Spain, France, or even the EU,” Tomasson concluded.
Iceland’s relationship with other nations has been in the spotlight throughout the economic crisis and this further complication will ensure the issue stays in the news.
well, it is very simple, if iceland will not pay its debt we suggest they give us part of their land. i suggest the nordwestern part (25 %).
Maybe Iceland has no friends because nobody wants to side with a country that is so obviously in the wrong. Going up against the most powerful economic block on the planet (by first robbing it and refusing to honour its legal agreements) is also hopeless.
I have better suggestion: you take heads of those who actually robbed you and do whatever you want with them.
Oh w8, most of them are already registered as UK residents which makes it even easier for you!
3rd party intervention from Spain? What? Why would they care?
Surely some better agreement can be reached that accomodates all sides in this dispute. Iceland to pay back the money it owes to the British and Netherlands tax payers on an interest free basis and also have it matched with economic growth. No one wants to see a economically crippled Iceland – this is not in the interests of anyone.
” …we could deal with possible sanctions from the British by selling our fish to Russia. ”
I do not think suddenly we are unable to sell our fish any where: US and Canada are not closed to us.
Same for rest of our stuff we do sell.
Exactly * because* we are * NOT * in the EU we have full ability to trade with who we want. They cannot restrict us as for EU member states they can.
Given that EU commission policies on Common Fisheries policy has decimated ( and worse ) fish stocks in waters in EU I have no doubts that EU member state do wish to continue to buy our fish.
>“I am not sure that direct communication with the British and Dutch will take this matter any further; the question is now whether we need to get third party intervention
As Homer Simpson would say ” doh! “.
Well we will see what they government representatives do say today but this case so desperately does need to be in front of impartial court, or any court somewhere of the EU member state ( either Icelandic, English, or Dutch ) for that matter.
Good for you Iceland. The private citizens of a country should not be made to pay for the mismanagement of a private firm (yes, a bank is a private undertaking). And where were the regulators in Holland and the UK when Icesave set up shop? Greed obscures thinking.
I am English and am extremely disappointed that our government expected Icelanders to bail out their banks losses in the same way as the British public have had to bail out the losses of our banks.It is time for the people to decide and I praise Iceland for allowing their people the chance to do so.
This is the result of Isolationism and boasting superior to other nations. hey , Icelanders you should know that you are not alone in this world .If you feel that what comes from the outside is Utlandingar(bad ) so be proud again and stop using all products from the outside then we will see if you will survive .The people who trusted the theives in Iceslave conspiracy should be paid back and not at the expense of ordinary simple people. the crimenals are known but the alþingi and govt does not think about them.wanting the E.U .you do not seem so.Scared for the farm and the fish which is mostly frozen and expensive in icelandic markets .
May Guð bless ísland
What about those of us who have outstanding salaries from Landsbanki? Should we not be paid ahead of anyone else?
Other than what may have been guaranteed by the government of Iceland (in the U.S., deposits in U.S. banks are insured up to $150k by the federal government) I wouldn’t expect any guarantees on my deposits in an offshore bank. It’s just that simple, you’re investing – you take risks. Why should the citizens of any nation be expected to pay debts owed by a private enterprise? I feel sympathy for those that lost their investments, but frankly – that is the risk you take in exchange for a higher rate of return on your investment.
Will King said:
“Other than what may have been guaranteed by the government of Iceland (in the U.S., deposits in U.S. banks are insured up to $150k by the federal government)”
This is the very guarantee that Iceland is refusing to pay. The bank was not ‘offshore’ it was onshore in effect, the Icelandic banks avoid scrutiny of local regulators by using the passport scheme.
Iceland is simply refusing to pay *anything* to non Icelandic residents, even though they were legally bound to provide a deposit protection scheme.
The United States Resistance Force encourages the people of Iceland to tell the bankers to go to hell.
Iceland is not refusing to pay,
Landsbanki was taken over by the state when the banking system collapsed and its assets who will cover 80% of the money neede to pay the 22000 per account are being sold since UK lifted the terrorist laws they put on iceland in the begining of this crisis, a considerable amount of money is already in LB, just waiting to be payed to the deposit guarantee fund,
the problem is the icesave loan deal itself and how it attacs our democracy and rights as a sovereign state,
I wonder if Britain and its citisens would be in a better position if they had a constitution and a president to defent their rights against bankers and politicians.
God save Iceland indeed
Iceland would rapidly obtain much more (and much needed) goodwill in the international community if it would arrest and after a fair trial impose lengthy custodial sentences (ie 20 years+) on those responsible for the activities of a bank which has been involved in blatant fraud. Their assets should be traced and seized under the international provisions which now exist for the purpose of preventing fraudsters from benefiting from their misdeeds. If the Icelandic authorities were to apply for the extradition of any such persons resident in the UK or elsewhere in the EU, this would undoubtedly be readily granted. Get the job started Reykjavik, and you will be amazed how quickly public opinion will swing behind you!
The debate is more detailed on this subject over here on this thread from earlier today :
http://www.icenews.is/index.php/2010/01/05/icesave-agreement-rejected-by-icelandic-president/
Axel wrote :
>Landsbanki was taken over by the state when the banking system collapsed and its assets who will cover 80% of the money neede
http://www.lbi.is/Uploads/document/CurrentSituationofLandsbankiÍslands.pdf
Yes, readers who do not know long history of previous posts please do take what Peter – London does say with pinch of the salt.
The facts are that Icelanders want to pay they debts.
They just want opportunity to see this IceSave dispute matter in court which Uk and Holland do want to deny , and reasonable payment caps per year so that 5.5% interest that Uk and Holland do want to extract from us doers not bancrupt country when principal payments do start around 2016
( 3.5% would be reasonable given cirumstances ).
>would arrest and after a fair trial impose lengthy custodial sentences (ie 20 years+) on those responsible for the activities of a bank
Our special prosecutor Ólafur Þór Hauksson appointed in December of 2008 is doing just that advised by Eva Joly and team of recommended French and Norwegian antifraud specialists.
http://www.serstakursaksoknari.is/english/
A trial has already resulted in jail time for two that were found to manipulating share prices of one the banks.
The worst offenders will be prosecuted and jail time given just the cases are being built on evidence in a careful and thourough way.
There is expected to be more news on all this cases in February.
>Iceland is not refusing to pay
Yes it is. Iceland (the state) has yet to confirm that there is a state guarantee that is not time limited.
What is more, they cannot secure funding to service that debt, hence the Icesave loans from UK & NL. Which are at a lower rate than the IMF loans and a similar rate to the other rescue loans (actually, the Nordics rate would likely exceed the Icesave rate in a couple of years time).
I agree with Tybach. The Government of Iceland should persue and prosecute those who were responsible. The failure to do so aversely effects public opinion both home and abroad, appearing to condone the fraudulent operations of the banking system.
Ordinary Icelanders should not be held accountable for the actions of a few in the private banking sector.
Hans made a good point too “where were the regulators in Holland and the UK when Icesave set up shop? Greed obscures thinking.”
We are after all only 300,000 and the tax burden as well as the increase in the cost of living due to a very low Krona, is likely to bring misery to the most vulnerable in society.
If this Government will not seize the assets of the responsible people and make them pay they should be replaced with one that will. These criminals must be brought to justice
A brilliant blogger, Karl Denninger,(USA), today stated:
“The City” has for literal hundreds of years been the hotbed of bankster corruption, greed and fraud. Your nation is on record (in The Congressional Record no less!) as having sent bankster “representatives” over to this country shortly after it was formed for the explicit purpose of bribing our Congress into being recaptured after you lost the Revolutionary War!
I, for one, am tired of this game of “captured government” and it appears so is Iceland and its people.
It’s about damn time.
See:http://market-ticker.org/archives/1819-Hint-To-Other-Nations-Heres-The-Bill.html
Stop the looting, jail the real crooks!
My best to all Icelanders
Jeffrey
Good for the Icelanders! Why on earth should anyone think that the Icelandic taxpayer is responsible to honor the debts of failed companies?
You are NOT alone Iceland and Icelanders. Those of us who appalled have watched our nations and governments be corrupted and taken over by the banksters applaud the STAND of the PEOPLE that you have now shown the world.
May others follow your example. Best wishes to you all.
Saell Icelanders and neightbours
of course we stand behind you here in Faroe Islands
God bless you all and a Happy New Year for you.
Bjorn
> “where were the regulators in Holland and the UK when Icesave set up shop? Greed obscures thinking.”
The regulators in Holland were voicing some serious concerns they’ve had with all icelandic parties (government, regulators and banking). They were ignored and could not stop icesave from setting up show in Holland due to EU laws. Link to Dutch document detailing Icesave timeline: http://www.tweedekamer.nl/images/31371_295_feitenoverzicht_118-189461.pdf
Stop calling foreign depositors (!! not investors!!!!) greedy as it makes you look like a nation of pathetic crooks.
While they were setting up show in the UK and NL, the people at the central bank (and the Government!) in Iceland knew their banking system was going to blow. Pillaging your neighbours in the north sea shores while you know you’re going bust is just downright criminal.
Please read the shocking report from Willem Buiter about the banking situation in Iceland drafted in april 2008.
http://www.cepr.org/pubs/PolicyInsights/PolicyInsight26.pdf
Everybody in Iceland knew it was going to crash … the banks, the central bank, the government. They should all be brought to justice!
It doesn’t matter how many people sign a petition, Iceland owes alot of money! what if a petition went around the UK and the Netherlands asking if Iceland should pay it back???
If they refuse to pay they deserve all the consequences that the decision provokes.
Jesper said:
“You are NOT alone Iceland and Icelanders. Those of us who appalled have watched our nations and governments be corrupted and taken over by the banksters applaud the STAND of the PEOPLE that you have now shown the world.”
Please remember, Icelanders are NOT victims in this affair. They took the funds of EU depositors and guaranteed their own citizens depositors. They are now refusing to honour the guarantee given to EU citizens, hardly making a principled stand – more right self interest.
On Jan 5, 2010, John said:
I am English and am extremely disappointed that our government expected Icelanders to bail out their banks losses blah, blah, blah.. . . . . . .
I too am English and am extremely pleased that our government expects Iceland to honour their commitments.
What part of “UNINSURED ACCOUNTS” don’t you people understand?
You want insured accounts so that it’s impossible to lose money, then GET ONE.
Don’t blame iceland for your own stupidity.
>>Iceland is not refusing to pay
>Yes it is. Iceland (the state) has yet to confirm that there is a state guarantee that is not time limited.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8438178.stm ( video interview )
> “where were the regulators in Holland and the UK when Icesave set up shop?
http://www.icenews.is/index.php/2010/01/05/icesave-agreement-rejected-by-icelandic-president/#comment-108749
The citizens of Iceland are not responsible for the misdeeds of criminals within their country! The banking community worldwide is. If you lost funds please take it up with ING, RBS, Lloyds, HSBC and the rest of the banking community. The banking woes of Iceland did not occur in a vacuum. Iceland cannot print GBP, USD, or EUR at it’s whim. Nor should it’s citizens assume the slave burden of the malfeasance others.
Best to Icelanders!!!
Do you think the U.S. will repay its debts? How about the UK? They, too, will default (or inflate with worthless currency). Iceland is nearer the beginning of the line, that’s all. Don’t let them saddle your citizens with their mistakes. Lenders need to be taught lessons about lending more prudently. Fvck ‘em.
North Korea and Iran may be interested in becoming an allies, if Iceland provides uranium enrichment technology.
Asimov, What part of deposit guarantees do you understand ?
“God save Iceland indeed
Iceland would rapidly obtain much more (and much needed) goodwill in the international community if it would arrest and after a fair trial impose lengthy custodial sentences (ie 20 years+) on those responsible for the activities of a bank which has been involved in blatant fraud. Their assets should be traced and seized under the international provisions which now exist for the purpose of preventing fraudsters from benefiting from their misdeeds”
I agree, i think this will happen in the next 3-4 months or there will be a revolution here in Iceland, there is a investigation report coming to the public shortly, every one here in iceland knows who the guilty people are, so we expect arrests to be made shortly.
Fisy, the regulators in the UK and in The Netherlands were not able to stop Icesave setting up shop in their respective countries, for the simple reason that Iceland had joined the European Economic Space [EU + EFTA] some years before.
By signing the EES treaty the Icelandic government [elected by the Icelandic people!] had promised to abide by EU rules, including the obligation to regulate the country’s banks and the government guarantee on bank deposits. In the year before the Icesave collapse the Icelandic government’s banking regulators apparently slept on the job. This means that Iceland, and Iceland alone, is responsible for this mess.
Perhaps it might help if I told you that the accounts were insured?
Thanks Fisy, but there’s a number of problems with that. The first being, of course, that he’s just a guy and not a legal document :) .
Nothing he says is inconsistent with what I said. As you should know.
Axel said:
“I agree, i think this will happen in the next 3-4 months or there will be a revolution here in Iceland, there is a investigation report coming to the public shortly, every one here in iceland knows who the guilty people are, so we expect arrests to be made shortly.”
———————————-
I think you are deluded. The only people who are even likely to be charged are those who acted carelessly and with extreme disregard/ignorance to the standard legally acceptable rules of deception. Anyway, there are insufficient fraud investigative resources appointed in Iceland, to weave a path though the complicated purpose built network of company/business law, to catch anything or anybody of substance.
One could argue that the entire Iceland economic policy since April 2006 has been a criminal deception. This deception is at the core of the Banks insane foreign operations and Icesave, – the one more desperate final fix solution.
“North Korea and Iran may be interested in becoming an allies, if Iceland provides uranium enrichment technology.”
Both already have that technology, Yemen on the other hand is defenceless and a ideal target for UK/USA
when the Blackwater people and other hired mercenarys are trough with murdering people in Yemen and all oil prospect areas are secured Britain and USA could send them over to Iceland.
I wonder how long USA and Britain can afford to attack other countries, Britains economy is in ruins and USA is heading in serious trouble, to use media propaganda and other tricks is not going to repair the economy, i think nothing will, its beond repair, some new ideology is going to have to replace the current one,
http://presstv.com/detail.aspx?id=115433§ionid=3510203
over 100 US banks went bankrupt in 09
endless list of problems,
Iceland was using the same neo-liberal busyness model as USA and UK, and we will all default,
no question about that.
“On Jan 5, 2010, Axel said:
I wonder if Britain and its citisens would be in a better position if they had a constitution and a president to defent their rights against bankers and politicians.”
Fair enough but then your elected govt should not have agreed to protect the deposits of UK/NL savers on an equal basis as Iceland based depostitors. This was agreed in return for being allowed to operate in EU/EEA. We are in this mess because Iceland failed to regulate its banks as required under the “Passport scheme” and then refused to pay guarantees on the same basis as was paid for Icelanders. Anyone who cant understand this is either very childish or possibly xenophobic. My employer is a UK based bank and operates in Norway. If it failed to honour its committments then its Norwegian bank account holders would seek compensation from the UK regulator and ultimately the UK govt in line with the agreed guarantees. Otherwise why would Norwegians pensioners, workers, students etc bank with a UK regulated bank unless they had some protection. They are not shareholders.
What in the word “bankrupt” does Wouter Bos and Gordon Brown do not understand?
How can you sign an agreement you know you can not pay anyhow. Would it be more fair to sign it and not pay it?
Strange people those politicians.
@Chris.
There’s nothing wrong with declaring bankruptcy but, and this is key, you have to declare it.
Sure you can try to negotiate a voluntary agreement with your creditors and we’ve seen that here, with the NL taking a rate cut from (IIRC) 7% in the MoU back in Oct/Nov ’08. Likewise agree a payment plan as with the limit on annual payments to a % of growth in GDP.
So if Iceland wants to default, then it may. But if it does not want to, then it has to pay it’s obligations. If someone will lend them the money at a rate less than 5.55%, then that’s fine. But they won’t; bonds were apparently 7-8% before the junking of Iceland’s credit rating, the IMF loan is over 6% and even the Faroe loan is 5.25%.
To those who are saying Iceland must repay its debt… What does Iceland owe to the UK or the Netherlands? Just because an Icelandic bank goes bankrupt, that doesn’t make the Icelandic government or citizens responsible for reimbursing you.
When British and Dutch citizens decided to deposit their money on a foreign bank, they should have been aware that there’s a risk of losing the money.
China. Not a friend but a partner. And hell more powerful then your imaginable “block”.
I also suggest you, Peter, to watch closely British banks ;-)
That government was FIRED by people of Iceland. Sorry, Jack :-)
@chris
THEY:IMF, UK, Europe forign creditors
Helpping hand: Coallition Goberment
(reds, blues, greens it doesnt matter)
Icesave is the least of or problems in regards to debt, we owe THEY about 15 times more than that, thats exactly why THEY and the helping hand want this deal to go throug, THEY boost the credit raitings so THEY accept resources and companies as payment.
@Ricardo – we deposited our money in Icesave and left it there until the “end” because we thought there was no risk of losing the money, because your State guaranteed the first Sterling£ 15K and the UK Govt the next £15K. Your State defaulted and now you must repay the UK Govt. Welcome to the real world.
It seems like the finantial world is blaming on Iceland for it errors.
It´s so obvious what happened about Icesave and corruption in the country.
But what about Islansbankin or Kaupthing?
This banks PAYED the debts with assets and they can not operated in the abroad and grow like banks.And this banks are still BBB+ Fitch.
why Iceland will be isolated because of one bank?
So, all the finantial world will blame about England ig HSBC break? British banks will stop to operate and will become +BBB?
How does one go about emigrating to Iceland? We love you people.
- signed America
Even of the stupid politicians and collapse, im still live in Iceland and love this place.
Even of some icelanders are asking me “Why do you live here?”
We need good ideas and execute them, Icelandic salute.
@annoyedofmanchester:
The deposit insurance comes from a specific insurance fund which is paid by fees charged to banks.
Can you refer to the law which state that the Icelandic state is responsible for covering the shortfall in case this insurance fund runs out? As far as I know, there is no such law.
On Jan 5, 2010, Eric said :
>Fisy, the regulators in the UK and in The Netherlands were not able to stop Icesave setting up shop in their respective countries, for the simple reason that Iceland had joined the European Economic Space [EU + EFTA] some years before
Yes — I understand this issue very well.
Here is the post I meant to link to :
http://www.icenews.is/index.php/2010/01/04/icelandic-president-under-pressure-for-icesave-decision/#comment-108658
My link reply in post above+ actually was to the wrong post ( that post explains the how and why of the UK and Dutch unilaterally increasing they guarantees above the EUR 20,887 required ofDirective 94/19/EC and how they did not give Iceland time to pay it out ) and
that this was done because it was not out of love for Icelanders ( or even the UK or Dutch depositors ) but to prevent collapse of UK and Holland banking systems and all money going out to Ireland, Asia, etc.
+http://www.icenews.is/index.php/2010/01/05/icesave-agreement-rejected-by-icelandic-president/#comment-108749
And a post explaining why inDefence and most Icelanders are against the December law ( but not against paying our debts for IceSave ) , and the majority of Icelander attitude to EU because mainly of EU commission recent actions since November 2008..
( and our 0.4% influence if we join EU but with all the costs of adding 100% of EU regulations — we have 10% now — and of course stopping free trade because EU member state must have EU commission decide that free trade outside EU customs union ) :
http://www.icenews.is/index.php/2009/12/30/the-icelandic-parliament-althingi-says-yes-to-icesave/#comment-107975
The adverage American has your back, just ask, for those who need to know what is really happening You Tube The Money Masters all the people are in danger.
An American in Virginia
This was in the FT today:
Check out this link:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/dd0831a4-fafa-11de-94d8-00144feab49a.html
This in the Guardian:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/poll/2010/jan/06/should-iceland-repay-icesave-debt
so dont belive tha everytinh is in chaos and that the sky will fall on us if we dont accept this deal, Yes to pay NO to this deal.
And now they have friends in two other bankrupt countries that have had to be bailed out, Latvia and Lithuania. As for the Spanish guy from the EU – He is just keen on sending his Spanish trawlers to take all the Icelandic fish once Iceland joins the EU. And I can’t recall the Icelandic banks setting uo any dodgy deposit bank operations in Latvia, Lithuania, Spain and Faroes – its not as if these countries would lose anything because of the way Icelands banks were privatised and not regulated properly. I guess that countries like Latvia would never have allowed Icesave or EDGE unless the deposits were 100% guaranteed by Iceland.