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	<title>Comments on: Uproar in Iceland&#8217;s parliament over allegedly suppressed Icesave documents</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.icenews.is/index.php/2009/12/30/uproar-in-icelands-parliament-over-allegedly-suppressed-icesave-documents/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.icenews.is/index.php/2009/12/30/uproar-in-icelands-parliament-over-allegedly-suppressed-icesave-documents/</link>
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		<title>By: Bjarni</title>
		<link>http://www.icenews.is/index.php/2009/12/30/uproar-in-icelands-parliament-over-allegedly-suppressed-icesave-documents/#comment-108145</link>
		<dc:creator>Bjarni</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jan 2010 20:42:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.icenews.is/?p=11092#comment-108145</guid>
		<description>For those that are not familiar with this issue raised by the Mischon de Reya report, it concerns a specific quite important legal point sometimes called the &quot;Ragnar Hall&quot; issue, named after the lawyer in Iceland that first pointed it out.

Basically, the issue is whether each individual deposit should be treated as a single claim against Landsbanki or two separate ones (by TIF and FSCS).  

If its treated as single claim, TIF will receive the first 20K Euros of each deposit from Landsbanki, which it can then use to pay back towards the IceSave loan.  FSCS will then receive any amounts that are left above 20K Euros towards their own claims.

If its treated as two separate equal claims, TIF will only get a percentage of the first 20K Euros, and FSCS will get equal percentage for the amount above 20K Euros it paid out to depositors.  The way the IceSave agreement is written, TIF will have to pay additional amounts back to FSCS, even if has priority according to the bankruptcy laws in Iceland.

This is one of the main sticking points many people, here in Iceland, have with the IceSave agreement  The amendments to the earlier IceSave agreement were supposed to address this problem, but they were seriously watered down during the second phase negotiations with UK this fall.  

The IceSave agreement would have a much better chance of being accepted here, if this issue would be resolved fully.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For those that are not familiar with this issue raised by the Mischon de Reya report, it concerns a specific quite important legal point sometimes called the &#8220;Ragnar Hall&#8221; issue, named after the lawyer in Iceland that first pointed it out.</p>
<p>Basically, the issue is whether each individual deposit should be treated as a single claim against Landsbanki or two separate ones (by TIF and FSCS).  </p>
<p>If its treated as single claim, TIF will receive the first 20K Euros of each deposit from Landsbanki, which it can then use to pay back towards the IceSave loan.  FSCS will then receive any amounts that are left above 20K Euros towards their own claims.</p>
<p>If its treated as two separate equal claims, TIF will only get a percentage of the first 20K Euros, and FSCS will get equal percentage for the amount above 20K Euros it paid out to depositors.  The way the IceSave agreement is written, TIF will have to pay additional amounts back to FSCS, even if has priority according to the bankruptcy laws in Iceland.</p>
<p>This is one of the main sticking points many people, here in Iceland, have with the IceSave agreement  The amendments to the earlier IceSave agreement were supposed to address this problem, but they were seriously watered down during the second phase negotiations with UK this fall.  </p>
<p>The IceSave agreement would have a much better chance of being accepted here, if this issue would be resolved fully.</p>
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		<title>By: Bjarni</title>
		<link>http://www.icenews.is/index.php/2009/12/30/uproar-in-icelands-parliament-over-allegedly-suppressed-icesave-documents/#comment-108134</link>
		<dc:creator>Bjarni</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jan 2010 18:16:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.icenews.is/?p=11092#comment-108134</guid>
		<description>I have been reading over the 86-page Mishcon de Reya report that was the catalyst for all the craziness on Tuesday, before the Icesave agreement was passed by Althingi.

http://www.althingi.is/pdf/umsogn.php4?lthing=138&amp;malnr=76&amp;dbnr=835&amp;nefnd=fl

Ignoring all the stupid disputes that resulted on what was kept secret by whom and why, there are still lot of interesting things brought up in this report.  

For example here is there take on whether each deposit claim should be treated as as one or divided up (page 16):

&quot;The treatment of each deposit as a single undivided claim is such principle in law that we can only assume it would also be applicable under Icelandic insolvency law, as the nature of the claim itself does not change towards Landsbanki, no matter what the contractual position between TIF and FSCS.  Under English law, it would not be possible to create, out of one single claim against an insolvent estate, two claims (still less two claims with different levels of priority, although the two parties who thereafter &quot;shared&quot; the claim might agree between themselves to divide recoveries other than equally).&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have been reading over the 86-page Mishcon de Reya report that was the catalyst for all the craziness on Tuesday, before the Icesave agreement was passed by Althingi.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.althingi.is/pdf/umsogn.php4?lthing=138&#038;malnr=76&#038;dbnr=835&#038;nefnd=fl" rel="nofollow">http://www.althingi.is/pdf/umsogn.php4?lthing=138&#038;malnr=76&#038;dbnr=835&#038;nefnd=fl</a></p>
<p>Ignoring all the stupid disputes that resulted on what was kept secret by whom and why, there are still lot of interesting things brought up in this report.  </p>
<p>For example here is there take on whether each deposit claim should be treated as as one or divided up (page 16):</p>
<p>&#8220;The treatment of each deposit as a single undivided claim is such principle in law that we can only assume it would also be applicable under Icelandic insolvency law, as the nature of the claim itself does not change towards Landsbanki, no matter what the contractual position between TIF and FSCS.  Under English law, it would not be possible to create, out of one single claim against an insolvent estate, two claims (still less two claims with different levels of priority, although the two parties who thereafter &#8220;shared&#8221; the claim might agree between themselves to divide recoveries other than equally).&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Fisy</title>
		<link>http://www.icenews.is/index.php/2009/12/30/uproar-in-icelands-parliament-over-allegedly-suppressed-icesave-documents/#comment-107991</link>
		<dc:creator>Fisy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Dec 2009 12:16:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.icenews.is/?p=11092#comment-107991</guid>
		<description>What must not forget is that like Össur Skarphéðinsson ( and Alistair Darling although for less time  ) those that are sitting in the Icelandic government seats come from a long period of being rabid Marxists and simply they view the world in different way from others.

Although he does seem more reasonable now+ you would just not believe some of the Looney Left stuff that people like Össur did used to write about and act.

There was a * reason * Icelanders did elect Davið government in 1991 and keep on electing them until last one this year.

+Frost over the World on Al Jazera - Ossur Skarphedinsson - 6 Feb 09 - Part 4 :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-vmHdqQJoQ</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What must not forget is that like Össur Skarphéðinsson ( and Alistair Darling although for less time  ) those that are sitting in the Icelandic government seats come from a long period of being rabid Marxists and simply they view the world in different way from others.</p>
<p>Although he does seem more reasonable now+ you would just not believe some of the Looney Left stuff that people like Össur did used to write about and act.</p>
<p>There was a * reason * Icelanders did elect Davið government in 1991 and keep on electing them until last one this year.</p>
<p>+Frost over the World on Al Jazera &#8211; Ossur Skarphedinsson &#8211; 6 Feb 09 &#8211; Part 4 :<br />
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-vmHdqQJoQ" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-vmHdqQJoQ</a></p>
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		<title>By: Don Franco</title>
		<link>http://www.icenews.is/index.php/2009/12/30/uproar-in-icelands-parliament-over-allegedly-suppressed-icesave-documents/#comment-107983</link>
		<dc:creator>Don Franco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Dec 2009 11:22:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.icenews.is/?p=11092#comment-107983</guid>
		<description>&gt;It has, however, been observed that certain information seems 

&quot;It seems&quot;... &quot;certain information&quot;....Bah...As I said,there is enough evidence for an impeachment.
Details,anyway,since after this &quot;uproar&quot; they promptly approved the bill.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;It has, however, been observed that certain information seems </p>
<p>&#8220;It seems&#8221;&#8230; &#8220;certain information&#8221;&#8230;.Bah&#8230;As I said,there is enough evidence for an impeachment.<br />
Details,anyway,since after this &#8220;uproar&#8221; they promptly approved the bill.</p>
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		<title>By: iceland pigs</title>
		<link>http://www.icenews.is/index.php/2009/12/30/uproar-in-icelands-parliament-over-allegedly-suppressed-icesave-documents/#comment-107903</link>
		<dc:creator>iceland pigs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Dec 2009 23:05:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.icenews.is/?p=11092#comment-107903</guid>
		<description>TREAT FOREIGNERS WELL ESPECIALLY PEOPLE FROM OTHER NATIONS FROM ASIAN COUNTRIES THEN CHINA WILL HELP YOU PAY YOUR ICESAVE BILLS DO NOT BULLY FOREIGNERS FRON RECENT NEWS OF NOT RENEW A THAI LADY WORK PERMIT OTHER WISE YOU ARE A NATION OF CROOKS</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TREAT FOREIGNERS WELL ESPECIALLY PEOPLE FROM OTHER NATIONS FROM ASIAN COUNTRIES THEN CHINA WILL HELP YOU PAY YOUR ICESAVE BILLS DO NOT BULLY FOREIGNERS FRON RECENT NEWS OF NOT RENEW A THAI LADY WORK PERMIT OTHER WISE YOU ARE A NATION OF CROOKS</p>
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		<title>By: wok</title>
		<link>http://www.icenews.is/index.php/2009/12/30/uproar-in-icelands-parliament-over-allegedly-suppressed-icesave-documents/#comment-107896</link>
		<dc:creator>wok</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Dec 2009 22:47:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.icenews.is/?p=11092#comment-107896</guid>
		<description>Wow, someday they will make some thriller out of that story in Holywood.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, someday they will make some thriller out of that story in Holywood.</p>
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		<title>By: Giova Bocca</title>
		<link>http://www.icenews.is/index.php/2009/12/30/uproar-in-icelands-parliament-over-allegedly-suppressed-icesave-documents/#comment-107882</link>
		<dc:creator>Giova Bocca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Dec 2009 21:46:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.icenews.is/?p=11092#comment-107882</guid>
		<description>To all Icelandic politicians:
Please just vote.  The question is very simple:

Will Icelanders remain Independent People, 
Or will you put them in a yoke?

We have a great Joke that is ready and waiting:
Q.  What is the difference between the fishermen of the cod wars and the politicians of today?
A.  Courage.

This joke will lose its witty sting if the question has to be, What the fishermen and the politicians have in common.  So please, put your tails between your legs and vote for the yoke.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To all Icelandic politicians:<br />
Please just vote.  The question is very simple:</p>
<p>Will Icelanders remain Independent People,<br />
Or will you put them in a yoke?</p>
<p>We have a great Joke that is ready and waiting:<br />
Q.  What is the difference between the fishermen of the cod wars and the politicians of today?<br />
A.  Courage.</p>
<p>This joke will lose its witty sting if the question has to be, What the fishermen and the politicians have in common.  So please, put your tails between your legs and vote for the yoke.</p>
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		<title>By: Fisy</title>
		<link>http://www.icenews.is/index.php/2009/12/30/uproar-in-icelands-parliament-over-allegedly-suppressed-icesave-documents/#comment-107861</link>
		<dc:creator>Fisy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Dec 2009 20:21:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.icenews.is/?p=11092#comment-107861</guid>
		<description>Tien Kou :
&gt;Stay brave, tell the bankers to go to hell.

More accurate to say EU commission.

Svavar Gest as ex-Central Committee member of Icelandic Communist Party ( and part of old People Alliance -- Alþýðubandalagið) despite his experience just does show that good old left wing attitude of information supression for &quot; the common goals &quot;.

This is all about not such incompetence in general of the Social Democrat but about the EU at an cost idea they do have.

Still it amazes me that Steingrímur J. and certain Left-Green MP do go along with it !!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tien Kou :<br />
&gt;Stay brave, tell the bankers to go to hell.</p>
<p>More accurate to say EU commission.</p>
<p>Svavar Gest as ex-Central Committee member of Icelandic Communist Party ( and part of old People Alliance &#8212; Alþýðubandalagið) despite his experience just does show that good old left wing attitude of information supression for &#8221; the common goals &#8220;.</p>
<p>This is all about not such incompetence in general of the Social Democrat but about the EU at an cost idea they do have.</p>
<p>Still it amazes me that Steingrímur J. and certain Left-Green MP do go along with it !!</p>
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		<title>By: Tien Kou</title>
		<link>http://www.icenews.is/index.php/2009/12/30/uproar-in-icelands-parliament-over-allegedly-suppressed-icesave-documents/#comment-107807</link>
		<dc:creator>Tien Kou</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Dec 2009 17:43:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.icenews.is/?p=11092#comment-107807</guid>
		<description>To all Icelanders,
Stay brave, tell the bankers to go to hell.
You will be better off in five years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To all Icelanders,<br />
Stay brave, tell the bankers to go to hell.<br />
You will be better off in five years.</p>
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		<title>By: Knowless</title>
		<link>http://www.icenews.is/index.php/2009/12/30/uproar-in-icelands-parliament-over-allegedly-suppressed-icesave-documents/#comment-107745</link>
		<dc:creator>Knowless</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Dec 2009 14:14:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.icenews.is/?p=11092#comment-107745</guid>
		<description>Don Franco said:

&quot;There is enough evidence for an impeachment.
For whom are you working, Mr.Skarphedinsson?&quot;

If you read the report

&#039;It has, however, been observed that certain information seems to have been removed from the presentation package by Svavar Gestsson, Chairman of the Icelandic negotiating committee, not wanting it to follow in the package to the foreign minister.&#039;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don Franco said:</p>
<p>&#8220;There is enough evidence for an impeachment.<br />
For whom are you working, Mr.Skarphedinsson?&#8221;</p>
<p>If you read the report</p>
<p>&#8216;It has, however, been observed that certain information seems to have been removed from the presentation package by Svavar Gestsson, Chairman of the Icelandic negotiating committee, not wanting it to follow in the package to the foreign minister.&#8217;</p>
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