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	<title>Comments on: Relaxation of Iceland capital controls to begin</title>
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	<link>http://www.icenews.is/index.php/2009/10/31/relaxation-of-iceland-capital-controls-to-begin/</link>
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		<title>By: Niels</title>
		<link>http://www.icenews.is/index.php/2009/10/31/relaxation-of-iceland-capital-controls-to-begin/#comment-99988</link>
		<dc:creator>Niels</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 12:02:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.icenews.is/?p=10160#comment-99988</guid>
		<description>Some thougts on the kreppa (icelandic crash)
Before I started posting on this site (about one year ago) I could not believe that Iceland would be hit so hard.
After all, it seemed to be a country that had everything going for it:
-no overpopulation
-no social tensions
-a small but educated population
-a tolerant and modern society
-a highly developed economy
-practically free energy.

As you can see my ideas were a bit naive. Posting on this site, reading comments of others as well as reading other stuff on the internet canged my opinion about several of these things (especially about education, the political system  and the economy).

Now at first sight it might look as if Icelanders are still well off, especially if you compare the first impression with a country like Lithuania where the scars of the communist past are still visible.

But the reality of most icelanders, I think , is much less rosy.

The fall of the krona has more or less halved purchasing power. And those who had loans in foreign currency (a lot of people I think), saw there debt grow enormously.

An income cut in halves and doubled debts: a grim reality.
The fact that the Icelandic economy will be crippled in the years to come by the repayment of Icesave and other debts does not help too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some thougts on the kreppa (icelandic crash)<br />
Before I started posting on this site (about one year ago) I could not believe that Iceland would be hit so hard.<br />
After all, it seemed to be a country that had everything going for it:<br />
-no overpopulation<br />
-no social tensions<br />
-a small but educated population<br />
-a tolerant and modern society<br />
-a highly developed economy<br />
-practically free energy.</p>
<p>As you can see my ideas were a bit naive. Posting on this site, reading comments of others as well as reading other stuff on the internet canged my opinion about several of these things (especially about education, the political system  and the economy).</p>
<p>Now at first sight it might look as if Icelanders are still well off, especially if you compare the first impression with a country like Lithuania where the scars of the communist past are still visible.</p>
<p>But the reality of most icelanders, I think , is much less rosy.</p>
<p>The fall of the krona has more or less halved purchasing power. And those who had loans in foreign currency (a lot of people I think), saw there debt grow enormously.</p>
<p>An income cut in halves and doubled debts: a grim reality.<br />
The fact that the Icelandic economy will be crippled in the years to come by the repayment of Icesave and other debts does not help too.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://www.icenews.is/index.php/2009/10/31/relaxation-of-iceland-capital-controls-to-begin/#comment-99975</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 09:39:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.icenews.is/?p=10160#comment-99975</guid>
		<description>&quot;THere has never been been a crash since WW2 in the west as the one from Iceland&quot;

Bull****! Unemployment in Iceland is much lower many European countries (eg it is roughly half that of Spain). Average income, living standards, education standards, health care, etc, etc are all still amongst the highest in Europe. Icelanders are not badly off relative to other Europeans!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;THere has never been been a crash since WW2 in the west as the one from Iceland&#8221;</p>
<p>Bull****! Unemployment in Iceland is much lower many European countries (eg it is roughly half that of Spain). Average income, living standards, education standards, health care, etc, etc are all still amongst the highest in Europe. Icelanders are not badly off relative to other Europeans!</p>
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		<title>By: Mike the Swiss</title>
		<link>http://www.icenews.is/index.php/2009/10/31/relaxation-of-iceland-capital-controls-to-begin/#comment-99965</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike the Swiss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 06:36:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.icenews.is/?p=10160#comment-99965</guid>
		<description>Bromley86, the costs are already there, just this blog is because of it. 
THere has never been been a crash since WW2 in the west as the one from Iceland (i do not consider west, Latvia or Lettland. 
I consider that what happened to ICeland could be something that could happen in bigger economy: spain, for instance.
I am interested in the perception nationals have about their defaulted countries. 
I&#039;ve seen and studied many defaulted countries, and there is not one single similarity or paralell to one another. Maybe, going back to history you could find one, but really, all brand new defauled looks different.
Now, little or big country, tell me how you make default, and I&#039;ll tell you of what are you (nationals) made of.
Bottomline, Iceland has one of the best chances to become a really prime economy, with enourmus success in the short run.
But this is only by assuming that there is no chance to pay back the money. Guarantees can be drafted, and even tested in court, but history have enough evidence that these kind of post mortem guarantees aren&#039;t paid.
But, but, there is one thing Iceland could do to somehow, which is to share the wealth will (sure it will) generate from its own recovery, and his is by giving to every creditor, a kind of sovereign bong that could deliver a coupon after 3 years 0 interest, and that for the next 7 years (10 in total) will deliver interest and at the end of those 10 years will payd capital. But this, should be tight to a kind of national resource industry, state owned. Geothermal energy companies should be the ones more interested. As the state of iceland should grant them the same amount of money they decide to take under responsability to it back to victims of Iceland 2008 crash.
This should work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bromley86, the costs are already there, just this blog is because of it.<br />
THere has never been been a crash since WW2 in the west as the one from Iceland (i do not consider west, Latvia or Lettland.<br />
I consider that what happened to ICeland could be something that could happen in bigger economy: spain, for instance.<br />
I am interested in the perception nationals have about their defaulted countries.<br />
I&#8217;ve seen and studied many defaulted countries, and there is not one single similarity or paralell to one another. Maybe, going back to history you could find one, but really, all brand new defauled looks different.<br />
Now, little or big country, tell me how you make default, and I&#8217;ll tell you of what are you (nationals) made of.<br />
Bottomline, Iceland has one of the best chances to become a really prime economy, with enourmus success in the short run.<br />
But this is only by assuming that there is no chance to pay back the money. Guarantees can be drafted, and even tested in court, but history have enough evidence that these kind of post mortem guarantees aren&#8217;t paid.<br />
But, but, there is one thing Iceland could do to somehow, which is to share the wealth will (sure it will) generate from its own recovery, and his is by giving to every creditor, a kind of sovereign bong that could deliver a coupon after 3 years 0 interest, and that for the next 7 years (10 in total) will deliver interest and at the end of those 10 years will payd capital. But this, should be tight to a kind of national resource industry, state owned. Geothermal energy companies should be the ones more interested. As the state of iceland should grant them the same amount of money they decide to take under responsability to it back to victims of Iceland 2008 crash.<br />
This should work.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://www.icenews.is/index.php/2009/10/31/relaxation-of-iceland-capital-controls-to-begin/#comment-99924</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 23:58:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.icenews.is/?p=10160#comment-99924</guid>
		<description>&quot;So, is there limit or restriction to transfer money to a bank account outside Iceland?&quot;

Yes, that&#039;s the main point of the current currency restrictions on outflows.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;So, is there limit or restriction to transfer money to a bank account outside Iceland?&#8221;</p>
<p>Yes, that&#8217;s the main point of the current currency restrictions on outflows.</p>
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		<title>By: Bromley86</title>
		<link>http://www.icenews.is/index.php/2009/10/31/relaxation-of-iceland-capital-controls-to-begin/#comment-99884</link>
		<dc:creator>Bromley86</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 18:54:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.icenews.is/?p=10160#comment-99884</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;From my point of view all rage coming from depositors from Isle of man, England and the netherlands, made a big big mistake , which is all unfortunate
But, that was the risk they freely decided to take. Then why should iceland pay back for them. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

That was a risk that they freely decided to take safe in the knowledge that there was a state guarantee of at least a minimum amount.  A very different position from the one that you advance.  It should be noted that the Icelandic state or its representatives had on numerous occasions before the collapse appeared to say that there was a state guarantee (although, when you look carefully at what was actualy said/written, it was equivocal).

The current legal reality is that there was in fact a state guarantee.  Of course, that has not been tested in court, but every published legal opinion and EU/EEA/memberstate statement (ex. Iceland!) to date has supported that.

Not sure what your point is about defaulting.  There&#039;s nothing stopping Iceland from doing so, if it decides that the benefits outweigh the costs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>From my point of view all rage coming from depositors from Isle of man, England and the netherlands, made a big big mistake , which is all unfortunate<br />
But, that was the risk they freely decided to take. Then why should iceland pay back for them. </p></blockquote>
<p>That was a risk that they freely decided to take safe in the knowledge that there was a state guarantee of at least a minimum amount.  A very different position from the one that you advance.  It should be noted that the Icelandic state or its representatives had on numerous occasions before the collapse appeared to say that there was a state guarantee (although, when you look carefully at what was actualy said/written, it was equivocal).</p>
<p>The current legal reality is that there was in fact a state guarantee.  Of course, that has not been tested in court, but every published legal opinion and EU/EEA/memberstate statement (ex. Iceland!) to date has supported that.</p>
<p>Not sure what your point is about defaulting.  There&#8217;s nothing stopping Iceland from doing so, if it decides that the benefits outweigh the costs.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike the Swiss</title>
		<link>http://www.icenews.is/index.php/2009/10/31/relaxation-of-iceland-capital-controls-to-begin/#comment-99880</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike the Swiss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 18:24:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.icenews.is/?p=10160#comment-99880</guid>
		<description>Well, I have to say this is an interesting blog. 
But which is the way out for Iceland? What do you  icelandics think of this?
A worthless currency sure could be a disgrace for many many people, but somebody is making a jackpot there for sure.
From my point of view all rage coming from depositors from Isle of man, England and the netherlands, made a big big mistake , which is all unfortunate. 
But, that was the risk they freely decided to take. Then why should iceland pay back for them. Major political earthquakes, currency default, credit default...sounds like Afganistan or Argentina back in 2001, has any of these countries ever been sanctioned or even summoned to pay?

The only way for iceland to go up again is to say I am deeply sorry, this will not happen again, but we cannot mortgage future generations because of a major force striked the country, that is nonesense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I have to say this is an interesting blog.<br />
But which is the way out for Iceland? What do you  icelandics think of this?<br />
A worthless currency sure could be a disgrace for many many people, but somebody is making a jackpot there for sure.<br />
From my point of view all rage coming from depositors from Isle of man, England and the netherlands, made a big big mistake , which is all unfortunate.<br />
But, that was the risk they freely decided to take. Then why should iceland pay back for them. Major political earthquakes, currency default, credit default&#8230;sounds like Afganistan or Argentina back in 2001, has any of these countries ever been sanctioned or even summoned to pay?</p>
<p>The only way for iceland to go up again is to say I am deeply sorry, this will not happen again, but we cannot mortgage future generations because of a major force striked the country, that is nonesense.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter - London</title>
		<link>http://www.icenews.is/index.php/2009/10/31/relaxation-of-iceland-capital-controls-to-begin/#comment-99849</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter - London</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 14:35:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.icenews.is/?p=10160#comment-99849</guid>
		<description>&quot;Now, you might say that that&#039;s their fault for exposing themselves to that risk, and you&#039;d be correct. But likewise someone who put more than the amount guaranteed by the IoM government into an account.&quot;

KSF is still operating as a nationalised bank, the supposed Icelandic promise to pay its debts don&#039;t extend to the parental guarantee to KSFIoM. It took threats and leverage to get Iceland to honour Icesave, somthing IoM doesn&#039;t have.

KSFIoM depositors were stupid on several levels though. Depositing more than the guaranteed amount, outside the EU and in an Icelandic bank that was within the most extended/fragile banking system in the world. It must have taken some effort to take that many risks at the same time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Now, you might say that that&#8217;s their fault for exposing themselves to that risk, and you&#8217;d be correct. But likewise someone who put more than the amount guaranteed by the IoM government into an account.&#8221;</p>
<p>KSF is still operating as a nationalised bank, the supposed Icelandic promise to pay its debts don&#8217;t extend to the parental guarantee to KSFIoM. It took threats and leverage to get Iceland to honour Icesave, somthing IoM doesn&#8217;t have.</p>
<p>KSFIoM depositors were stupid on several levels though. Depositing more than the guaranteed amount, outside the EU and in an Icelandic bank that was within the most extended/fragile banking system in the world. It must have taken some effort to take that many risks at the same time.</p>
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		<title>By: Balkanson</title>
		<link>http://www.icenews.is/index.php/2009/10/31/relaxation-of-iceland-capital-controls-to-begin/#comment-99848</link>
		<dc:creator>Balkanson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 14:31:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.icenews.is/?p=10160#comment-99848</guid>
		<description>So, is there limit or restriction to transfer money to a bank account outside Iceland?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, is there limit or restriction to transfer money to a bank account outside Iceland?</p>
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		<title>By: Bromley86</title>
		<link>http://www.icenews.is/index.php/2009/10/31/relaxation-of-iceland-capital-controls-to-begin/#comment-99847</link>
		<dc:creator>Bromley86</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 14:27:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.icenews.is/?p=10160#comment-99847</guid>
		<description>&gt;Basically, if future capital inflows are registered, then their subsequent transfer out of Iceland will be authorised.

Madness!  This should have been the case anyway.  although perhaps there&#039;s an angle/way to beat the system that I haven&#039;t thought of that explains why they felt it was necessary to do this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;Basically, if future capital inflows are registered, then their subsequent transfer out of Iceland will be authorised.</p>
<p>Madness!  This should have been the case anyway.  although perhaps there&#8217;s an angle/way to beat the system that I haven&#8217;t thought of that explains why they felt it was necessary to do this.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://www.icenews.is/index.php/2009/10/31/relaxation-of-iceland-capital-controls-to-begin/#comment-99825</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 11:41:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.icenews.is/?p=10160#comment-99825</guid>
		<description>After some sniffing around, it turns out that the lifting of restrictions on capital inflows is really about permitting certain outflows. Basically, if future capital inflows are registered, then their subsequent transfer out of Iceland will be authorised.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>After some sniffing around, it turns out that the lifting of restrictions on capital inflows is really about permitting certain outflows. Basically, if future capital inflows are registered, then their subsequent transfer out of Iceland will be authorised.</p>
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