The Icelandic Financial Services Authority (FME) today announced it has taken over the savings banks SPRON and Sparisjodabankinn after they requested state help earlier in the week.
Their operations and deposits will be moved over to other establishments. SPRON will be merged into New Kaupthing from midnight tonight and Sparisjodabankinn is to be taken over by the Central Bank of Iceland.
The deposits in both banks are guaranteed and customers will still be able to access their money and their online banking services.
Kaupthing said in a statement that it will announce more information as soon as possible, and that it sees the responsibility of being chosen to take over SPRON as a welcome endorsement from the authorities.
SPRON and Kaupthing got approval for their merger from the Competition Authority in the summer; but the banking crisis stopped it from going ahead. Now it seems Kaupthing got its prize in the end – although admittedly less valuable than it once was.
As their name suggests, the savings banks have a much higher savings to loans ratio than the other banks did – although they are now full service banks, offering loans, mortgages and credit cards just like the commercial banks.
The flurry of news stories saying that all of Iceland’s major banks have been nationalised (which appeared in October and again recently when Straumur was nationalised) have not been true. But they are now.
So we have all the banks nationalized… It can’t be worse, because there are no any more left. If the situation can’t be worse, now it can be only better :) Why I don’t feel optimistic enough?
@Songvari
I dont really understand what you mean, but the fact that it can not get worse doesnt mean that it’s getting better, this banks are beeing taken over by a goberment that HAS NO money to teke them over, so you do the math.
Gosh… I was trying to be sarcastic :)
I live in Iceland and I know exactly what does it mean to this country, but when you don’t have reason to laugh all you can do is cry and laugh at one time.
I’m very sad because of that news – I was sure that Sparisjodabankinn will survive.
Government should not take a control of Glitnir and first at all should not let this happen. But let’s be honest – we all a little bit guilty. Who didn’t like to take loans even for a stuff that was to expensive to us, but then most poeple were thinking “why not, you only live one”…
I am just moving my money out of this s**t.
AT LEAST I HOPE THEY WILL LET FREE MOVEMENT OF PEOPLE OUT AND IN THE COUNTRY!! THIS IS LIKE A COMMUNIST COUNTRY IN ITS WORST TIMES…
I CAN SEE THE ICELANDERS QUEING FOR FOOD DURING NEXT YEAR.. ( WELL, THEY ARE STARTING TO DO IT NOW, AT THE RED CROSS AND OTHER AID ONG’S)
ICELAND HAS A DIFFERENT IDENTITY TODAY, YES IT I AN SCANDINAVIAN COUNTRY, BUT IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE CONTINENTAL ONES. ICELAND IS A RUINED COUNTRY. WICH HAS ONE OF THE HIGHEST EXTERNAL DEBTS OF THE WHOLE WORLD.
ICELAND IS ECONOMICALLY THE POOREST NATION OF EUROPE AND AT THIS POINT IS AT THE SAME LEVEL THAN ANY BANANA REPUBLIC.
THE WELFARE SYSTEM IS A CHAOS HERE. THE HEALTH SYSTEM, EDUCATION, AND ANY SERVICE TO THE CITIZENS ARE MUCH WORSE NOW.
THE WORSE PART OF ALL THIS IS THA THE MAJORITY OF ICELANDERS ARE STILL DOING AS IF NOTHING HAPPENED. PEOPLE HERE DON´T WANT TO RECOGNIZE THAT THEY ARE POOR, MONTHS AGO THEY WERE ALL AROUND THINKING OF THEMSELVES AS RICH, AND NOW THEY SEE THEY ONLY HAVE DEBTS.
I THOUGHT ICELANDERS WERE WAY MORE INTELLIGENT THAN THIS !!
@Songvari, Like I said I was not sure if you were beeing sarcastic or not.
This is just amazeing, but still there is some people that say that things were getting better, this is crumbling down like a jenga and nothing is going to stop it, Im telling you people, get hold of your money because its going to get uglier and uglier, the goberment DOESNT HAVE the money to support the financial system anymore, the IMF will pull out very soon, and all the forign investors will force one of two things, Iceland into bankrupcy or will force Iceland to lift the currency restrictions and consecuently the collapse of the krona and bankrupcy, either way… and this is well on its way, they are just saveing time for the elections, this situation with the forign investors is way more serious than they say, well actually they havent say anything about it. There is another option and unfortunatelly is the ONLY option we have, joining another country or the EU. Iceland CAN NOT work its way out of this, the hole is to deep and we have no tools to climb.
Note that all the Iceland banks have not been nationalised; only a small number have been nationalised, but those just happen to be the largest ones. Rose-coloured spectacles can help…
Then jump off the board. It’s easy. But please, stop crying like small baby…
LOL. What do you know about “communist country”?
To all others in panic – old story.
“It was very cold winter day. Too cold for a small lonely sparrow. His wings freeze and he tries to take refuge in a local barn.
When he is shivering in a pile of hay and thinking about dying so young, a cow walks by and takes a dump on him. But as the cow crap is warming him up he comes back to life and … suddenly realizes that it is crap that keeps him alive. He is so angry about the fact that he, a free bird, is sitting in the pile of cow crap that he starts chirping WTF etc. A barn cat hears this, digs him out of the cowpie, and eats him.
There are three morals to this story:
1. Someone who craps on you isn’t necessarily your enemy.
2. Someone who digs you out of crap isn’t necessarily your friend.
3. If you find yourself in a warm place in the cold day – even in a pile of crap – KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT!!!
@Alexander
By thge way if you have nothing to say about the article, PLEASE dont say anything, because based in all your posts, you look better when you just keep quiet, if you know what I mean. It really sais alot about you whan you have nothing to say so you kust try to undermind others comments, yes ALOT.
OH QUIT WHINING ALREADY!
1. Icelanders are smart, work hard and know how to work together.
2. Iceland has a great infrastructure (IT and otherwise).
3. You just have to get thru this hell-period like all the rest of us.
I can see why you’d adopt the Euro or try to join another country. For my two aurars worth, may I suggest the Dollar and the United States instead?
1. It’s a lot cheaper.
2. You get to rule yourself as a state, no Eurocrats or ******* Danes.
3. You could make the U.S. assume Iceland’s debts. We don’t care, we just print the money.
4. If you wish we’d make Iceland one big National Park and all the Icelanders could be park rangers.
5. We’re your country anyway from a thousand years ago. Claim your ancient rights!
Easy is right, or mostly right. There is very little real money behind anything. The three “new” banks, and now the savings banks, are effectively insolvent. The two billion euros foreign reserves guarantees about 1400 billion ISK of home mortgages, the real market value of which is maybe 800. The same money guarantees the three new banks, and the cash deposits there. And now the savings banks deposits. And it stands behind the currency. And it stands behinds all sorts of other promises.
It’s like a Hollywood movie stage. All facades that appear real if you don’t look too closely, with nothing behind them.
Icelandic politicians may fool themselves into thinking that this shell game will work. But sometime in the future Iceland will have to turn into an East German style command economy, with all sorts of price and wage fixing and monetary and currency controls.
I don’t think the IMF or Norway will pull out, or at least not for two years, so I don’t think the currencty will collapse right. Eventually, yes probably.
The EU is the only possible solution, and not even a very good one, since Iceland, if it joins and if the EUro zone still exists, will have to implement the same harsh budget cuts that Ireland is making right now. Large social spending cuts and large tax increases.
Why not just join Germany directly, as a subdividivion of one of the states? Maybe as a Landkreise of East Frisia. For a while the Germans claimed part of Antarctica as their own colony – called Neuschwabenland. So Iceland could be “Neuostfriesland”. Nobody has ever willingly asked to join Germany, except for some poor German descendants on the Volga on Russia. So the Germans would be very flattered. Most of the foreign debt is owed to the Germans – why not just give them the entire country in exchange for the 20 billion euro debt and let the Germans take over everything? The Germans would provide lots of order and discipline. Good cheap beer, too.
Yes Alexander very clever, alot of wisdom in it, in other words “the stupid tries to fellowship with somebody more stupid, so he doesn’t feel so stupid”. Yes you will get far with that spirit, good just hope you are not transmiting that to your kids. “if you are in deep s**t its ok, just relax, eventually you will get used to the smell” you are deffenetly a “winner”
> Christian Hansen
5 – We’re your country anyway from a thousand years ago. Claim your ancient rights!
We – the whole Viking communitiy – look forward to October – when Barak Obama will make this proclamtion on Leif Erikson Day
http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2008/10/20081008-5.html
PS – I live in the area where Eric the Red is supposed to be born…
OYSTEN “We’re your country anyway from a thousand years ago. Claim your ancient rights!”
OYSTEN, DO YOU KNOW THAT IN THEIR WAY FROM SCANDINAVIA TO ICELAND THEY GOT MIXED WITH DIFFERENT POPULATIONS AND THAT WAS THE RACIAL-CULTURAL STRATUS OF THE INHABITANTS OF ICELAND UNTIL THEY GOT HIGLY MIXED WITH MORE THAN 2 THOUSAND SAILORS AND FISHERMEN FROM THE BASQUE COUNTRY AND FRANCE THAT STABLISHED THEMSELVES SPECIALLY IN THE EAST OF ICELAND??
DO YOU KNOW THAT ALSO DURING THE WW II THE VERY MIXED ICELANDIC POPULATION GOT VERY MIXED AGAIN WITH USA AND BRITISH SOLDIERS. IT WAS SUCH A NORMAL THING THAT EVEN LOCAL AUTHORITIES WHERE ASKING NOT TO BRING BLACK SOLDIERS TO ICELAND TO TRY TO COVER “VERY APPARENT CASES OF” ICELANDERS MIXING WITH FOREIGNERS…
DID YOU KNOW THAT THOSE ICELANDIC POPULATIONS LESS MIXED WITH FOREIGN DO PRESENT MORE GENETIC ILLNESSES, DISSABILITIES AND DEFORMITIES??
IN THE ICELANDIC LANGUAGE THERE ARE HUNDREDS OF FRENCH WORDS OR ADAPTED WORDS EVEN FROM SPANISH… YEAH,,, THEY USE THE WORD “DAMA” HERE… DO YOU KNOW WHAT DOES MEAN?? WELL, IT IS INCREDIBLE.. ICELANDERS CLAIM TO UNDERSTAND THE TEXTS WRITTEN 1 THOUSAND YEARS AGO… YEAH, BUT I AM NOT SURE THOSE ANCIENT PEOPLE WOULD UNDERSTAND THE AVERAGE ICELANDIC TEENAGER OF TODAY. THE LANGUAGE HAVE SUFFERED DRAMATIC CHANGES AND THOUSANDS OF NEW WORDS ARE NOT IN USE ANYMORE, WHILE THOUSANDS OF NEW CONCEPTS HAVE BEEN ADOPTED, COPIED OR CREATED…
THEN YOU GET ALL THIS PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT THE VIKINGS… BELIEVE ME, ICELANDERS OF TODAY HAVE A LOT OF DIFFERENT ORIGINS, NORVEGIAN IS JUST ONE OF THEM…
“This is real and well documented, especially by Arab chroniclers of the period such as Ibn Hayyan, Nowairi or Ibn Adhari, the governor of Lisboa, who tells about their floats appearing in 844, then in 859-860.
Permanent settlements were built at least in Galicia and Navarre (where they had joined Basques and Spaniards to fight the Moors), temporary ones in Portugal. They were trying to build an alternate commercial road through the Pyrenees to join the biggest slave market in the Western Mediterranean, Tortosa, according to French author Joel Supery.
The latter even thinks they colonized Gascony (in the South West of France) for about 140 years, and brings surprising evidence; archeological findings, toponymy and local written sources which are well-known but have been totally neglected by historians until now (such as Le Cartulaire de Bigorre, Le Cartulaire de Tarbes, La Geste des Toulousains or Le Bréviaire de Lescar ).
They would have influenced the maritime traditions of the Basques (who would owe them their whaling techniques) and some of the Portuguese and Spaniards’ones”
By the way, I have never been a supporter of joining the UE, I wish we never had to, but I’m not stupid and I’m realistic, and I can tell you and I could sign it right now, “Iceland WILL join the UE” not because is the best, not because we like it but because ther is NO other option we HAVE TO, and by the way we dont even have a vote on this, its been decided long time ago, mark my words. I give it a year, we will not be in te UE in a year off course but we will officially know it in just a matter of months.
@ Gus
THE WORSE PART OF ALL THIS IS THA THE MAJORITY OF ICELANDERS ARE STILL DOING AS IF NOTHING HAPPENED. PEOPLE HERE DON´T WANT TO RECOGNIZE THAT THEY ARE POOR, MONTHS AGO THEY WERE ALL AROUND THINKING OF THEMSELVES AS RICH, AND NOW THEY SEE THEY ONLY HAVE DEBTS.
I THOUGHT ICELANDERS WERE WAY MORE INTELLIGENT THAN THIS !!
Of all above’s posts, this is the most sane thing.
And btw, it is the same laziness that have stopped the pot and pan “revolution”. I really hope the coming election will bring some changes – IE: new politicians, new people in the banks and a much better and less liberal welfare system.
> GUS . It is not a problem to me. The Vikings went quite far, as you know, so I am quite sure that there is a lot of mixed people around the world.
Here is another one http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigurd_Jorsalfar
(Perhaps we are related? ;-)
To those of you that thinks nothing is happening – here is a homepage where you can start:
http://www.nordicinnovation.net/
It is a mix of languages – choose what you prefer.
OYSTEN, WE ARE ALL HUMAN BEINGS. EVEN IF SOME BEHAVE LIKE ANIMALS. MAYBE WE ARE RELATED LIKE IN HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF YEARS AGO, WHEN THE FIRST MEN WENT OUT OF AFRICA AND EXPANDED TROUGH THE WORLD.
I AM OF JEWISH ANCESTRY. BUT IT IS POSSIBLE THAT SOMEONE IN MY FAMILY, IN THE PAST HAD MIXED. IN MY FAMILY WE HAVE BLOND, RED HAIR AND DARK HAIR, AND ALL COLOURS OF EYES IMAGINABLE. WE ARE USUALLY TALL. SOMETIMES WE ARE CONFUSED WITH NORVEGIANS, IT IS SO FUNNY…
BUT I DON´T KNOW. WHITE PEOPLE WITH BLOND HAIR EXIST EVEN IN ARABIA OR PERSIA SINCE THE BEGGINING OF THE TIMES. YOU COULD EVEN FIND BLOND PEOPLE WITH BLUE EYES IN THE MOUNTAINS OF MARROCCO… BUT THEY ARE NOT SCANDINAVIANS AT ALL…
THERE ARE MANY MISTERIES ABOUT HUMAN GROUPS AND THE WAY THE HAVE MIXED.
BUT AS YOU KNOW, I AM JEWISH AND WE ARE THE CHOOSEN PEOPLE. FOR US TO MIX WITH “THE OTHERS” IS A TRAGEDY IN THE FAMILY. STILL WE ARE OPENING A LITTLE BIT AND ARE MORE FLEXIBLE NOW. BUT STILL… THE SAME RULES ARE THERE, ORGANIZING OUR LIFES AND THE WAY WE ARE AND BEHAVE.
I’m always surprised when Icelanders are saying: “we have to join UE” and don’t think about the consequences. Why UE is so willing to take bankrupt Iceland and they want to do this so fast? You will agree for everything, they will take your fishery and before you will join EURO zone you will not have nothing to sell for that EURO. Let’s be honest – without fishery Iceland is almost nothing. Politics will talk that Iceland is a modern country, about hundreds of educated poeple, skilled proffesionals and bla bla bla, but is there any person who will say: poeple educated at University of Bifrost or any other like this do not have any chances abroad when they will compete with millions of poeple educated on all over the world and also looking for a job. Without fishery – you don’t have nothing. So please… maybe you should do the math and think… And also – listen to your first lady – she knows what she’s talking – she knows more about making money than all of you. What you have, is a fishery, geothermal energy, tourism and not to much more. When you will join UE you will lose almost all of that. You just have to be much less rich from today and live with that like every normal poeple all over the globe. And also – when you will join UE – how many votes you gone have? A half? Compare yourself with Germans for example – they can get what they want and all vthe otes of nordic states will not be enough to say no. Do you know anything about the UE? You will have to wait many years before you will see Icelandic Euro. And you not gone have a lot of them then.
I asked Kestas from Lithuania about it but he was not able to answer – except “it’s wonderful to be in EU”. But looks like now he has no money even for Internet ;-)
So let me ask you, Easy.
What will EU membership bring for Iceland?
If you look at the statistics – sea products now make less than half of the Icelandic export. Yes, without fish Iceland wouldn’t be what it is. But Iceland is changing and have some things except fish. And in some fields is the world leader. And without question is in much better position than majority of the “mighty” EU members.
Going back to on-topic matter.
It’s kind of funny to see people whining about “nationalization”. But what’s wrong with that? It is much more correct way than “bailing out”. It’s just ownership change. And it’s right. Because if you look at the “bailouts” – this is most stupid thing ever happened to market economy.
If the government has to pay – it must be the owner. As simple as that.
For those who think slowly – let’s say GUS has a few billion dollars and decided to pay for SPRON. Will he be an owner of the SPRON then? Yes he will be. Will anyone be surprised by that? No. maybe angry as all correspondence will be in capital letters. 8-)
So why are people surprised that the government is the owner of the new banks? The government is the same market player as any other from that respect.
The only wrong thing – using the word “nationalized”. It sounds like the mobs stormed the banks and smash all windows there. But it’s not.
I checked with Kaupthing – the only change for my account is different bank number (but account number is same). Everything works as usual – cards, internet access etc.
“Why UE is so willing to take bankrupt Iceland and they want to do this so fast? You will agree for everything, they will take your fishery and before you will join EURO zone you will not have nothing to sell for that EURO. Let’s be honest – without fishery Iceland is almost nothing.”
TO START WITH:
- ONLY FISH WILL NOT SITUATE ICELAND BETWEEN THE MOST ADVANCED NATIONS OF THE WORLD. ICELAND DESPERATELLY NEEDS TO GROW IN LAST TECHNOLOGIES AND PRODUCE TO SELL IT. ONLY FISH ISN´T ENOUGH.
-WHO SAID EU IS WILLING TO TAKE BANKRUPT ICELAND AT ALL COST?? ICELAND OWS MORE THAN 100 BILLION OF EUROS. NO THANK YOU, I DON´T THINK EU IS IN ANY RUSH FOR IT.
@Alexander,
+++
” you look at the statistics – sea products now make less than half of the Icelandic export
”
+++
There is a nice icelandic site on statistics which shows that in 2009 actually almost 40 % of icelandic exports comes from marine products:
http://www.statice.is/?PageID=1261&src=/temp_en/Dialog/varval.asp?ma=UTA02201%26ti=Exports+by+branches+of+processing+January+2008%2D2009%26path=../Database/utanrikisverslun/Utflutningur/%26lang=1%26units=Fob%20million%20ISK
Actually it seems aluminium is now the biggest export of Iceland.
Still almost total exports comes from either marine products or aluminium.
Off course there is nothing wrong for somebody that grew up in socialist russia, by the countrary I suppose its the normal thing for you if the goberment owns EVERYTHING, I get that but look here in the western world, in the free world off course its something not good, but letme explain you, ok? sit and get a paper and a pen and if possible a calculator, ok? Look Alexander besides political ideologies and childhood complexes, it is bad to nationalize this banks because the goberment HAS NO MONEY to do it, so unless you have your money in your hand your money is nothing but a number in a database, you see if you are broke and have no way to provide for your family and I come and tell you, dont worry I will take care of you, but I am broke too, what good does it make for you? NONE, by the contrary its terrible for me because now Im broke and I have to take care of my family PLUS yours, on the paper its a very nice gesture but nothing else. Now there is something more worrying, that the goberment did not take over this banks to save them but because it NEEDS the little money this saveing banks have. well thats even more dangerous, and thats most likely the reason they did it, and next is the pension founds, and then the housing fonds, ohh yes that sounds nice, no? whats the big deal, right?
>I checked with Kaupthing – the only change for my account is different bank number (but account number is same). Everything works as usual – cards, internet access etc.
Is it fair to say that you’re more in favour of deposit protection now than you were before? :)
> GUS
“OYSTEN “We’re your country anyway from a thousand years ago. Claim your ancient rights!” –
Read this:
http://www.icenews.is/index.php/2009/03/21/icelandic-savings-banks-nationalised/#comment-69480
As I understand Mr. Hansen – The US belongs to Iceland ;-)
I have no problem with mixed people – there have been both Icelanders, Jewes/Israel and others involved close in my family…
It doesn’t matter for me as long as it’s done in legal way and makes profit ;-)
In fact there are areas when global, centralized control (aka government) works better than private one. And vice versa. You can see now perfectly well how pure private world financial system has performed lately ;-) And I know better than you how stupid the government control over toothpaste production was (there was control and planning but no toothpaste actually)…
So there is nothing wrong in the government control or private freedom themselves – as long as they are under control and balanced. Otherwise they both lead to the mess and crew up everything around.
Well, someone had to do that. I mean to get the remains of the “banks” under control. And for some reason I don’t want Gordon Brown to take control of Icelandic “banks”. Or Roman Abramovich for that matter (remember – the Chelsy owner and Russian governor?).
And as “bank assets” were just numbers in the database anyway – I see no problem that Icelandic government “bought” them with other numbers :-)
From my experience – this is the best handling of the bank system crash so far. As the government (at least someone there with clear mind and full understanding of what money really are) prevented full paralysis of the cash flow INSIDE the economy. This would have been a real financial death, believe me. Now Iceland is – in medical terms – in critical conditions but still alive with good chances to recover.
So, my dear Easy, I guess it is you who doesn’t know the basics of the economy cause you didn’t study it neither in the school (unless you finished famous Bifrost School of Business Administration) nor in real life (except easy life in Iceland).
PS. Nothing personal. Just addressing your note about my poor communist childhood ;-)
I also want to remind you that for almost 20 years there has been very wild – sometimes mad – capitalizm over there. Don’t believe me? Ask Abramovich then.
Did I say otherwise?
What we are not in agreement is – what deposits are. I’, in Iceland and I have current (debit) account in Icelandic BANK. With 2% “interest”.
You are talking about “investments” in foreign Internet “bank” with 14-18% interest.
See the difference?
So we should look at the papers and read what they say. Then go to court and let the court decide. Not G.Brown nor SIR GUS.
And in fact I don’t expect any government to keep its word about “deposit guarantees” as this is BS. If the banking system is not sustainable – who would care about “deposits”. They are just numbers in the databases as Easy explained to us.
Nei, takk.
Iceland won’t be able to handle (in other words – pay) US debt in million light years! So thanks for the offer – but take it yourself! ;-) At least Eric was born in Norway, right? Then – you are responsible 8-)
> Alexander E.
A big Norwegian company – Telenor – is just testing the Russian Capitalism – I wonder how this will end, as it is on high political level these days.
@Alexandre:
Your own words:
“And I know better than you how stupid the government control over toothpaste production was (there was control and planning but no toothpaste actually)…”
Lets use YOUR OWN analogy but with the real product we are talking about:
“And I know better than you how stupid the government control over MONEY production was (there was control and planning but no MONEY actually)…”
So, think before you bable something its not about just winning an argument. And off course there is no problem for you if the goberment nationalize everything I now that thats what I was telling yo, you have it in your blood your genes. sadly.
ALEXANDER SAID:
“What will EU membership bring for Iceland?”
NO ALEXANDER, THE QUESTION IS:
WHAT WILL ICELAND MEMBERSHIP BRING TO EU?
ANSWER: ANOTHER POOR COUNTRY TO REBUILD, AND A TOTALLY RUINED NATION.
NO THAK YOU !!
EU TAXPAYERS HAVE HAD ENOUGH OF POOR COUNTRIES BECOMING EU MEMBERS. I THINK WE HAVE FILLED OUR QUOTA OF THAT…
THE POORS WITH THE POORS, KEEP THERE BAILED BY IMF AND EU LOANS… LIKE ANY OTHER THIRD WORLD COUNTRY!!
Ah, Alexander, it was you depositing at 14%, remember? Everyone else outside Iceland was getting ~6% (and not just from Icesave/KE).
Regarding guarantees, perhaps it was just foreigners that you thought shouldn’t be guaranteed? Either way, there was a big discussion about it a month or so ago.
I THINK THE ONLY SOLUTION FOR ICELAND IS A MASS EMIGRATION OF ICELANDERS OUT OF THE COUNTRY. LIKE WHEN THEY WENT TO CANADA. AND DIVIDE THE COUNTRY BETWEEN THE NATIONS THAT ICELAND OWS SO MUCH MONEY. SOMETHING LIKE THE TREATY OF FLORIDA, WHEN USA GOT FLORIDA, NEW MEXICO AND TEXAS FROM THE SPANISH EMPIRE.
MAYBE THEY CAN HANDLE THE WHOLE ALUMINIUM INDUSTRY OVER TO FOREIGN INVESTORS… OH SORRY!! IT IS ALREADY ON THE HANDS OF FOREIGN COMPANIES!! ( ALCOA ?? )
WELL, IT SEEMS INEVITABLE, ICELAND SHOULD SEEL PART OF IT LAND TO AT LEAST BE ABLE TO SURVIVE WITH DIGNITY IN THE FUTURE. IT HAS HAPPENED BEFORE. MANY COUNTRIES HAVE GIVEN PART OF THEIR TERRITORY TO PAY OFF HUGE DEBTS…
I VOTE THAT WE GET THE HALF OF THE COUNTRY TO THE EAST ( DRAW A LINE FROM AKUREYRI TO THE SOUTH AND LET THE ICELANDERS THE OTHER PART OF THE COUNTRY. THEN WE SHOULD RAISE A WALL AND HAVE CONTROLLING POINTS JUST TO BE READY WHEN THEY TRY TO GET TO THE OTHER SIDE TRYING TO FIND SOMETHING TO EAT…
ICELAND IS BECOMING ANOTHER ZIMBAWE, WELL LETS SAY ANOTHER HAITÍ, BECAUSE IT IS AN ISLAND.
AND EVERY DAY MORE AND MORE ICELANDERS FLEEDING THE COUNTRY!!… IT IS SO SCARY THAT EVEN THE CANADIAN AMBASSADOR GAVE THE MESSAGE TO ICELANDERS THAT IT WONT BE “THAT EASY FOR THEM” TO JUST MOVE TO CANADA AND START WORKING. THEY HAVE TO GO THROUGH A PROCESS… THEY ARE EXPECTING A FLEED OF THOUSANDS OF ICELANDERS TO CANADA AND THAT IS NOT A PRETTY THING FOR THE CANADIAN GOVERMENT… UNLESS THEY ACCEPT TO BE RELOCATED AGAIN IN A PLACE OF CANADA WHERE THEY NEED PEOPLE, NO ONE KNOWS WHERE, BUT FAR AWAY IN THE WILD….
WAIT, IN THE WILD?? THAT WOULD JUST SUITS THEM VERY WELL!!
AND NOW I HAVE TO GO TO MY NEIGHBOR, HE IS SELLING THINGS OF GREAT VALUE AT A LAUGHING PRICE… PEOPLE NEED TO EAT YOU KNOW…
Hi Alexander,
One question: is your bank account in ISK? If so, with an inflation of 17 % you are losing a lot on this account (17,6% is the most recent figure from Sedlabank).
For your information, Icesave in Holland offered 5,25% interest, not 18 %.
This was about 1 % more than the ‘big’ local banks.
In the UK it was similar.
Apart from this Icesave used the ‘solid scandinavian’ reputation which Iceland still had at that time in order to attract customers.
>There is very little real money behind anything. The three “new” banks, and now the savings banks, are effectively insolvent. The two billion euros foreign reserves guarantees about 1400 billion ISK of home mortgages, the real market value of which is maybe 800.
Can I ask where you get information of this given you sitting in Norway as far I know. I don’t find it myelf.
>The EU is the only possible solution, and not even a very good one, since Iceland, if it joins and if the EUro zone still exists, will have to implement the same harsh budget cuts that Ireland is making right now. Large social spending cuts and large tax increases.
UK and Turkey more likely join EFTA than Icelanders ever join EU.
>Why not just join Germany directly, as a subdividivion of one of the states? Maybe as a Landkreise of East Frisia.
Interesting laterla think there.
Join with Germany not great idea as Germans different idea about individualism than Icelanders. But main thing Germany will be too busy getting itself out of EU in next years after seeing bills to pay of Greece, Portgual, other states than be concerned this kind thing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Per_capita_benefit_from_EU_for_budget_period_2007-2013_-_vertical.png
Some of the assets of Spron may be sold in the next few days, a number of investers have come forvard already,
Things are changing here, we have proof tha Haarde has been lying to us at least since february 08 when the central bank read a extramly negative report to the innest circle of the government, he has admitted this because this report is now public and we know who was there, the indepenence party is in ruins and will hopfully not recover from this in this century at least, the collapse of Spron has made alot of people angry and every one in Iceland are talking about the the corruption in banking and politics, Steingrimur has put more money into investigation work, Joly has sent some French specialist to collect information,
this scandal is now a part of our saga and we will not have to wait for long to read the first book about this, this is a small place where every one knows everything about everyone,
if someone wants to keep a secret Iceland is not the place, we are have a extreamly well doucumented history and this will be added to it in the smallest detail in multiple volumes every one of them containing new bits of confidential information,
the latest scandal is that some companys in Lux belonging to Landsbanki have been shut down an accounts emptyed inspite of Lb beeing under administration, this was done by a french lawyer working for Björgolf Thor, Lb was the only registered owner of those companys, one had 36bn Isk when it was shut down,
looks like illegal activity to me,
time to arrest Björgolf ?
Iceland will get out of this crisis much faster than every one else, and we will also use this crisis to repair som issues in our busyness and politics, whitch are easy to spot right now,
Icesave deal close now and lots of positives,
if i compare this system crash to some other catastrofy we had in the past, like a volkano eruption in Skaftáreldum 1783 – 1785
this whole thing becomes laughable,
we have seen worse, we have alot of hard work ahead of us but thats not going to be a problem.
I was going to say a few words to Gus because of his eldless and pointless ranting, but after reading thru some of the posts here above i understand why the article about monkeys being able to show signs of intelligence cougt Alex’s attention.
This deposit is in another “bank” :-)
And I have one more account in the third…just in case.
As to outsiders – I’ve heard from users of this board about 18%. Are they lying?
Either this is very bad example or you don’t know what money really is. As your example sounds same as “government control over KILOGRAMS production” or “kilometers production” etc. Dollars, kronas, pounds, whatever – are measurement units. So they can’t be “produced”. But let’s hope you were so eager to answer that you didn’t think twice before bubbling.
Most likely your point was that government can’t manage money as good as “market” does. Is is correct?
Well I’m not going to smack you with current samples of how good “the market” was with handling finance.
I just want to tell you that when we are talking about “government” or “private” ownership – we are talking about people. And in case of Iceland we are talking about just 300,000 people. And I’m sure that just 5 good professionals from “government” can handle the money in Iceland much better than 25-50 crooks from “private” sector. And in fact they did. Before “privatization”. Don’t you agree? Frankly, it always makes me laugh when I hear “five biggest banks of Iceland”…sorry, guys. I just came from small province town twice the size of Iceland.
As to toothpaste – it doesn’t matter government or market way – but few guys sitting in Moscow couldn’t handle it – planning, production, logistics, retailing etc. – for the 250,000,000 customers over the land that covered 1/6 of Earth. That’s why it was stupid. Not because something was in the genes.
Oops, I forgot.
I have to repeat the question, Easy.
“What will EU membership bring for Iceland?”
Apparently the foreign creditors – Deutsche Bank – are going to take over all or most of New Kaupthing (the other two banks will merge). This means that Deutsche Bank will now owns the savings banks too.
This is what EU membership means. Complete surrender of all assets to the foreign creditors. You will pay back every euro to the Europeans. You will pay back every pound to the British. The house loans will be owned by the EU, and since many loans are underwater, the EU will end up owning many if not most houses. The fishing fleet and agriculture are deep in debt, so Deutsche Bank will own them too. The fishing quotas will be cancelled and the fish will belong to the EU. Iceland still needs cash to pay off the Brits so the geothermal electrical utilities companies will be sold to foreigners. That doesn’t leave much left, does it?
In return you get a real currency, which will cost the Europeans at least 10 billion euros. But that money will be exchanging ISK held by the banks for euros, so the Germans will be putting the euros into the pockets of other Germans.
In addition the EU will impose new regulations, controls, and supervision, so Iceland will be governed from Brussels.
Probably you will get to keep your flag and the national orchestra.
Not a bad trade-off, no?
@Vilhjalm Antonsen:
Sad but true, spot right.
@Alexander:
The UE will bring: Allow us to keep on eating.
Ha-ha two times, Vilhjalm Antonsen ;-)
First of all, Deutsche Bank is not EU. Not at all. It’s international bank that operates all over the world including USA and Russia. But I have never heard that last two guys are EU members.
Second, I have nothing against Deutsche Bank. For me all evils are the same – DB, Landsbanki, Islandsbanki, Kaupthing etc. ;-)
Third, I very much doubt Deutsche Bank HAS money no w to buy anything that won’t make more money in the next decade. And in this respect EU is not in better position than Iceland.
What’s wrong with that? If someone can offer good price – why not. It’s market economy. Aluminum smelters are not Icelandic really – so what?
First, not EU but some specific banks – might be Sberbank (Russian SPRON).
Second – what can they do with houses? Eat them? The good thing for Iceland is its unique position – and island in the far North Atlantic. So it’s hard to sell houses there to Europeans as second summer houses – not for the climate reasons but for the price to have them.
So as I said – I don’t care whether it will be Deutsche Bank or Kaupthing.
Vilhjalm Antonsen, I think your “assumption” is wrong as it based on wrong assumptions that EU is a kind of company, run by one CEO, who owns Deutsche Bank. And that Iceland is worth 10 billions…
Then maybe it’s better if JUST YOU go to EU right now. I can print a poster for you “Plize gimme eet i em pur islander” 8-)
>As to outsiders – I’ve heard from users of this board about 18%. Are they lying?
I couldn’t say. Niels has given the rates for the Netherlands. I can confirm the rates for the UK when I opened my KE a/c not long before the collapse were:
Instant Access – 6.55%
6 month fixed – 6.97%
12 month fixed – 7.15%
36 month fixed – 7.15%
Icesave was very similar. Those compare with ICICI 12m fixed of 7.2% (another high-rate “foreign” internet bank). Building Societies were hitting 7%+ for fixed deposits. It wasn’t hard at all to find instant access a/cs over 6% – even supermarkets were offering that.
@Alexander:
You said: “What’s wrong with that? If someone can offer good price – why not. It’s market economy.”
The problem is that they won be bought they will only be taken over.
As it is now fish, water, houseas whatever, we just own it in paper, but we have just already lost it, it will all be TAKE over NOT sold. And yes aluminium is not ours. do your homewor dummy.
@Alexander:
http://www.newsfrettir.com/n/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=332:two-banks-in-stead-of-three&catid=20:general&Itemid=42
You said: “Ha-ha two times, Vilhjalm Antonsen ;-)
First of all, Deutsche Bank is not EU. Not at all. It’s international bank that operates all over the world including USA and Russia.”
AND NOW IN ICELAND!!!
You said: “Third, I very much doubt Deutsche Bank HAS money no w to buy anything that won’t make more money in the next decade. And in this respect EU is not in better position than Iceland.”
Like I said before They DON’T need Money to buy it, they will just take it over. Afer all we “lost” 25 Billion of their money.
You said: “Vilhjalm Antonsen, I think your “assumption” is wrong as it based on wrong assumptions…”
Reallity check my friend. You are the one doing wrong asumptions, like I said at the moment Vilhjalm was SPOT RIGHT.
Are you so stubern to still stand by your word? I guess you are after all for you is just about winning the argument no matter based on what “assumptions” lets wait few weeks.
By the way Iceland will not sell anything to anybody THEY WILL JUST TAKE IT, they dont need to bring money and will not bring money to Iceland, they will just take what belongs to them, based on the money we already stole from them.
and the same happen with fishery and the same with housing and geothermal power, and EVERYTHING, forign claim owners will take EVERYTHING and still wont be enough to pay back the money. REALLITY CHECK.
Easy.
Don´t start typing in CAPITAL LETTERS, pleeease!
PS. You should be happy actually as Iceland will be in EU at any given day soon. So I don’t understand why you are crying ;-)
“Why not just join Germany directly, as a subdividivion of one of the states? Maybe as a Landkreise of East Frisia. For a while the Germans claimed part of Antarctica as their own colony – called Neuschwabenland. So Iceland could be “Neuostfriesland”. Nobody has ever willingly asked to join Germany, except for some poor German descendants on the Volga on Russia. So the Germans would be very flattered. Most of the foreign debt is owed to the Germans – why not just give them the entire country in exchange for the 20 billion euro debt and let the Germans take over everything? The Germans would provide lots of order and discipline. Good cheap beer, too.”
This really made me smile. I am from Ostfriesland, by the way, a region that thinks of itself as being a culture and a country very much disctint from the rest of Germany. So I very much doubt Ostfriesen/East Frisians are typical German. And while they do drink beer once in a while, they prefer Indian Tea – a habit for which East Frisians are famous.
BTW – currently the German media is not really interested in Iceland. They are much more interested in the huge ‘Hypo Real Estate’-mess. A bank nobody knew of before whose stability now the German taxpayer guarantees with nearly 100 bn Euros!!!
Hard to argue
Everything has its negative and positive sides. Positive side of the crisis – we might get a better new system.
So have you ever tried to “argue” with monkeys? I don’t think so. It’s also a good idea not to give him “food”… ;-)
Peter,
There are also frisians living in the north of Holland and on Helgoland. Frisians in Holland do consider themselves a distinct people too and they have their own language (which AFAIK is not used in Germany anymore).
I do think that joining Germany as “Nord Helgoland ” or ” Nordwest Friesland” would be a big shock for Iceland:
-good cheap beer (VA already mentioned that one)
-good cheap food
-really cheap supermarkets
-world class hospitals and universities
-best cars in the world
and most important of all: REAL success in soccer!!
On the downside : dealing with german ‘sense of humor’ and burocracy.
I think it would be too much for most icelanders.
Niels, East Frisians do have a some sense of humor. :) Quite in contrast to the people living in Swabia, but anyway. ;) BTW: East Frisians are always very jealous of their mighty and economically more successful neighbours in the Netherlands. :) German bureaucracy is a catastrophe, that’s for sure…
East Frisians don’t make use of the ancient frisian language anymore, but there is very typical regional dialect which is very close to the Dutch and also English language and which is unintelligable to people outside Ostfriesland. :)
Sadly, I now have to live in (prosperous) Baden-Württemberg. Thankfully, there a frisians online-shops that dispatch East Frisian tea. :)
Sorry for being off topic, folks!
The news says that even if Iceland becomes an EU member in 2011, it won’t get the Euro until 2013. A further obtacle is a requirement that debt not exceed 60% of GNP, and it’s not clear that Iceland meet that (actually it’s likely that there’s no chance of meeting that level.)
Until then Iceland will have to survive off the $5 billion from the IMF, $2 billion from Norway, and whatever the government can collect in taxes.
There are 400 billion ISK glacial bonds to service, plus another 200 billion of other national/bond debt, which costs maybe 100-150 billion in interest payments per year (about $1 billion.). Over three years that takes at least $3 billion, plus more money to support the ISK and if any bondholders can cash out.
The government wants to exchange foreign currency debt held by creditors for foreign currency assets held by the pension funds, so even the pension funds will end up cleaned out and holding bags of worthless ISK.
So…. something bad is going to happen, sooner or later.
Most likely the government will maintain its happy face and keep spending and trying to service the debt and then suddenly one day, the government will be completely broke. The country will have an total economic heart-attack and everything will collapse, and this time for real.
I dont think Iceland will join the EU, inspite of every thing that has happened no one is talking about EU or euro, its just not something that we want, there is no panic or fear here believe it or not, i dont think this will change no matter what may happen in the future,
Svein Harald Oygard is gettin interest rates and inflation dow and keeping the kr stable, also not wasting money on dead companys like spron who had zero chance of survival,
im sure we will recover some of the funds who have bee hidden in places like virgin island very soon, lots of people are working on this and they are not dragging their feet, the heat is on :)
A interview with Sven Harald, use the link at the bottom “hér” to see it in English
http://visir.is/article/20090326/VIDSKIPTI06/433375722/-1
@Axel:
How old are you? keeping the krona stable? from 141 to 160 in 10 days? tell me what stable currency looses 13 % of its value in 10 days, ahh and even when its TOTALLY restricted. Not wasteing money on SPRON? well, there is no money to waste, plus they took spron because is part of the PACKAGE the germans will take, it went to Kaupþing which will go to the Germans, by the way they are not buying it they are just takeing it.
> Axel.
“im sure we will recover some of the funds who have bee hidden in places like virgin island very soon, lots of people are working on this and they are not dragging their feet, the heat is on :)”
As there is a Nordic cooperation on this, there seems to have been a very good progress on this, and money have been found. There have been done a lot agreements already, this is the latest I know:
http://norden.org/webb/news/news.asp?id=8474&lang=6
Össur Skarphédinsson came up with an advantage. Better interest rates on the Icelandic debt.
“If these interest rates drop by only one percent, ISK 23 billion (USD 194 million, EUR 143 million) could be saved. However, according to Fréttabladid’s sources, it is difficult to estimate how much Iceland’s credit terms would improve with an application to the EU.”
http://icelandreview.com/icelandreview/daily_news/?cat_id=16539&ew_0_a_id=321992
THE ISK IS FALLING AGAIN!! 162 PER EURO TODAY!! NEXT WEEK WE WILL SEE THE ISK FALLING AND FALLING… BY THE TIME WE HAVE A NEW GOBERMENT WE WILL SEE THE REAL PRICE OF THE KRONA ( 250-300 ISK= 1 EURO? )
YEAH RIGHT! NOW THE MONEY IS GOING TO BE FOUND AND BROUGHT BACK TO ICELAND… HAHAHAHAHA
ANOTHER JOKE IN THE CIRCUS…
HAHAHAHAHA
WHAT A SHOW!!