The Kristeligt Dagblad newspaper has reported that several parties in the Danish Parliament are considering legislation that would ban circumcision on boys as well as girls. After an intense week of discussions by MPs, it appears that the proposal for a ban covering both genders is gaining traction.
Although the Social Democrats, the Liberal Alliance, and the Red-Green Alliance have already gone public with their support for the ban, the Danish People’s Party is calling it a “tyranny.”
“It’s completely ridiculous to compare the circumcision of girls – which is a barbaric mutilation – with that of boys, where it’s just the removal of a skin flap,” said Jesper Langballe of the Danish People’s Party.
However The Copenhagen Post reports that the party’s own health spokesperson, Liselott Brixt, says she supports the circumcision ban, stating “a lot of parents want it done to their children because they themselves had it done. But we’re living in the present and it isn’t fair to expose healthy children to religious circumcision.”
At the centre of the debate is the question of religious freedom. Female circumcision was outlawed in Denmark because it was deemed a too-common practice among some Muslim immigrants. But Jewish tradition demands that boys be circumcised, and many Christians and Muslims support the practice as well. Denmark’s Ethics Council has criticised the practice, suggesting boys should wait until 15 to decide for themselves, the age at which a child has sole legal control over his or her body in Denmark.
[…] about this subject in depth before..other than to say I am opposed to circumcision. But this article about how Denmark is considering a ban on circumcision got my […]
[…] (see the case of a mother being fined after her son developed complications, for example) and Denmark seems to be flirting with the […]
Bromley, you could be right about circumcised (Afican) women wanting to reduce their daughters’ sexual pleasure down to their own level, just as circumcised American men do (only denying there is any reduction). Here is an interesting article about why women are cut in Nigeria, that has some eerie parallels with why males are cut. http://www.thetidenews.com/article.aspx?qrDate=01/14/2009&qrTitle=Myths%20surrounding%20female%20genital%20mutilation&qrColumn=YOUTH%20WORLD
Rabbi Wengrov said
“Male circumcision is one of the oldest … practices of Judaism.”
Old =/= good. Slavery was thousands of years old before it was abolished (and it is in the Hebrew scriptures how to treat your slaves, so it can be – and was – argued that slavery is also divinely ordained). The Chinese bound girls’ feet for hundreds, maybe thousands of years. Female genital cutting is probably just as old as the male.
“…and most essential…” If cutting baby boys’ genitals really were essential to Judaism, then that would be a stain on Judaism. It contradicts the edicts to loving-kindness, to doing no harm, and against marking the body. If Judaism is the fine ethical system it appears to be in every other respect, it will move on from the idea that baby boys’ genitals have to be cut.
“This is no more than anti-religious bigotry in the disguise of liberalism.” No, most Intactivists are in the US, where they give by far the greatest part of their energy to opposing the US “medical” circumcision, which 30 times as common as the Jewish, and is carried out with quasi-religious fanaticism for hundreds of bad reasons.
[…] about this subject in depth before..other than to say I am opposed to circumcision. But this article about how Denmark is considering a ban on circumcision got my […]
[…] outlawed in Denmark Filed under: Sexism hurts men — Ampersand @ 12:59 am Via BigFred: The Kristeligt Dagblad newspaper has reported that several parties in the Danish Parliament are considering legislation that would ban […]
“There is no comparing male circumcision to the horrible mutilation that is mistakenly named “female circumcision.””
I agree, but you can’t even do anything at all to female genitals in most progressive countries I know, nothing even if its damage that would heal in a day or less, no worst than a small cut on your finger or your arm.
While it is legal, and done in well-over 50% of US male births, as a matter of so-called cleanliness. Because sure, having a keratinized penis must be much better in itself.
It’s still much better in adulthood, even if it takes a longer time to heal. The same for intersex infants being reassigned or butchered. If they want it themselves, it can wait until they are old enough to decide for themselves, rather than have butchered tissue to try and do something with (you try and tell a boy who was raised as a girl and who had his penis cut off, though they called it clitorodectomy, as a “social emergency” to better identify as a girl, that they HAD to cut his penis off.)
There’s also freedom of religion. You can indoctrinate your family in your traditions and your religion, but until they can agree to take part in it in an unbiased fashion, they should not have to. Especially one-time rituals that end up maiming their sex organ for life.
I was baptized as an infant, but since I didn’t drown, and had no lasting effect or trauma, or anything physical to show for it – I don’t mind. Doing something irreversible is different.
There is no comparing male circumcision to the horrible mutilation that is mistakenly named “female circumcision.” For the latter, I recommend Ayaan Hirsi Ali’s book, “Infidel.”
Also, adult circumcision is much more painful and takes longer to heal than when done in infanthood.
Male circumcision is one of the oldest and most most essential religious practices of Judaism. Countless regimes attempted to ban it, with no avail. They are history, the Jewish faith lives on.
This is no more than anti-religious bigotry in the disguise of liberalism. If this ban passes, it will be a stain on Denmark’s Folketing. Jews will just have to continue circumcising their male infants elsewhere.
@Kieran: It’s not that hard to believe: Routine circumcision in many places became commonplace *precisely* because it interrupted sexual pleasure. In more puritan times, that was the goal.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_male_circumcision#Male_circumcision_to_prevent_masturbation
Many Jewish parents are now choosing an alternative ceremony for their sons called Bris Shalom. For more information,
jewishcircumcision.org
jewsagainstcircumcision.org
Good point in your first paragraph Hugh7, although it does undermine your second (i.e. the women don’t miss what they don’t know).
It’s funny, but I find myself on the fence on this one. I fall into the “nothing could be less wonderful” group, so I tend towards allowing choice. At the same time I stongly disagree with the brainwashing of young minds to a parent’s religion, so I find it hard to argue with your final paragraph.
Scratch that – you’ve convinced me. Not sure I’d risk creating a market for back street operations though.
Ah, but Kieran, since they all have it done to them at an early age, they never know what sexual pleasure a complete penis would have given them. And if you try to tell them (not only Muslims and Jews, but also Americans), they refuse to believe you. It’s that male thing: “Nothing could possibly be less than wonderful about MY d!ck.”
And though female genital cutting also damages sexual pleasure (in the African varieties, much more, but in the very mild Indonesian variety, probably less), that isn’t the intention – otherwise it wouldn’t be women who do it.
Bromley, only a tiny proportion of men ever need or want to be circumcised, and that in itself is an excellent reason for not doing it to healthy babies.
I find it very hard to imagine that Muslim and Jewish males would have continued to support for thousands of years an operation that damaged their sexual pleasure. These are strongly male-dominated societies. Female genital mutilation is intended to damage sexual pleasure and thus make women less enthusiastic about engaging in sex – that is to relieve male anxieties about their control of women’s sexuality.
This is purely a religious subject… Mixed with politics, it doesn’t sound good.
Is the Penis mall cut or not? I’d guess yes.
http://icelandweatherreport.com/2006/01/penis-mall-exposed.html
@Erik
I am sorry you feel that way.
kosher butching has already been outlawed because it is cruel and unnessesary painfull.
I am not an anti semite but I am against cruelty to humans or animals just because some 1000’s of years old books says so.
The Nordic countries discuss a lot – here is the new site for gender research http://www.nikk.no/English/
I suppose this is a healthy step towards the de-jewification of the male population?
Well done Danemark. It was just about time to think that the circumcision should be a personal choice!
A big BRAVO!
@Jack. Thus demonstrating how dangerous facts are.
A more reasonable and useful fact would be the number of voluntary adult male circumcisions and the number of voluntary adult female circumcisions. Also any studies into post operative sexual impairment in both cases (although the voluntary element isn’t vital to this bit, it would help rule out back street jobs).
Now I don’t have those to hand, but I’d guess the ratio in the first case would be 1:0. Assuming that there are any adult female circumcisions to compare with, I’d guess that the ratio of reports of post operative long term sexual impairment would conversely be approaching 0:1.
Q
Why has David Oddsson never had a circumcision ?
A
Cos you need to be a COMPLETE prick to control the Central Bank…..
“…barbaric mutilation – with that of boys, where it’s just the removal of a skin flap…”
Wow, what an ignorant statement considering:
Male Glans (head): 4,000 nerve endings
Female Clitoris: 8,000 nerve endings
Male Foreskin: 20,000 nerve endings
That skin flap has some very highly evolved sensory function.
The Male Glans:
Contains about 4,000 nerve endings, but they are pressure/pain-sensitive, not touch sensitive.
Male Foreskin:
Contains about 20,000 nerve endings which are extremely touch sensitive (like the female clitoris).
Circumcision cuts off ‘more than 3 feet of veins, arteries and capillaries, 240 feet of nerves, and 20,000 nerve endings.
A few days ago the Swedes were talking about plastic dongs for transvestites and the Danes are now talking about circumcision./ I assumed it was a Jewish thing,chopping off(ouch!) the end of a boys pecker,and it also is for cleanliness, later in life, for the circumsized male.
>Denmark’s Ethics Council has criticised the >practice, suggesting boys should wait until 15 to >decide for themselves
Ridiculous – it’s just not feasible at that age. Can’t these people even use wiki:
“Adult circumcisions are often performed without clamps and require 4 to 6 weeks of abstinence from masturbation”
About time too. People should be able to decide for themselves whether they want parts of their genitals cutting off.
That “skin flap” referred to in the article includes the most sensitive part of the penis (it’s not just there to protect the glans).
It’s illegal to make an incision on a girl’s genitals, even without removing any tissue, yet it’s commonplace for boys to have their foreskin ripped away from the glans (it’s usually attached till puberty), and cut off.
Boys deserve the same protection as girls. If they want to be circumcised, it should be their decision. Circumcision later in life is safer, hurts less, and the results are cosmetically better.
Sry, ot, but breaking news, folks!
“Reykjavik – What began Monday as a celebration of Iceland’s 90th birthday since its independence from Denmark in 1918 turned into protests by several hundred people who stormed to the central bank in anger over the government’s handling of the financial crisis.”
http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/244249,protesting-icelanders-storm-bank-streets-over-economy-crisis.html
Wow! In almost every other nation of the world, this would lead to dire consequences in the government and the central bank. I hope this even will have an impact on the stubborn Vikings Haarde and Oddsson.
And congratulations to the brave protestors! I keep my fingers crossed for you. Yes, you can!
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