In publishing an article from the Icelandic point-of-view, The Guardian has made Icelandic friends where some other British newspapers have failed over the last week.
The Guardian story by John Henley describes Icelanders as, “Confused and angry,” and “Wondering why Britain appears to be doing its best to push their country over the edge.”
“There’s an anti-Iceland thing going on. But why? Why are you behaving like this?” one unnamed Landsbanki analyst asked Henley. “Is Gordon Brown happy to have a small, badly weakened scapegoat to distract attention? In any case, it’s succeeded: Britain has destroyed whatever confidence there was left in Iceland.”
Saeunn Kjartansdottir, a Reykjavik psychotherapist was less philosophical: “In Iceland we have been told consistently that the Icelandic government has from the start of this crisis had every intention of paying their due to British savers. We have been told that our finance secretary said this very clearly to your chancellor. And then the very same day, Mr Darling appears on British television and claims the opposite!”
The Guardian also reports that executives at Kaupthing bank believe the Bank could have avoided nationalisation, as IceNews also reported earlier in the week. The executives blame their downfall on the British government for seizing their British operations by force and selling them to the Dutch giant ING. Kaupthing was not responsible for Icesave.
Finnur Oddsson of the Icelandic Chamber of Commerce: “It is simply not true to say that Iceland has defaulted. The Icelandic government has never said it will not pay. Certainly the message we are getting in Iceland is that these banks have been nationalised, that they have assets abroad and that those assets will be used pay off what British savers have in their accounts. And the government has said it will back all depositor guarantees.”
While Iceland admits their greedy bankers have brought at least some of the crisis on themselves, they are also surprised at some of their supposed allies, according to The Guardian. The Prime Minister, Geir H. Haarde, said the country had turned to Russia in search of a EUR 4 billion loan because EU partners had proved unwilling. And others point the finger at America too – a country that maintained a large military base at Keflavik until recently.
The article’s conclusion is that the Icelandic economy, and especially its currency, is just too small to weather such an economic storm. Indeed, the Icelandic krona is the world’s smallest free-floating currency by quite some margin.
Henley concludes that Iceland will have to take a different currency or peg its exchange rates against a bigger neighbour. This would work in much the same way that all the Eurozone currencies were pegged to the euro before the currency was available in cash form. Despite remaining outside of the euro, the Danish krone has had been pegged to it for nearly a decade.
OMG, did an icelandic Landsbanki employee really have the nerve to ask “There’s an anti-Iceland thing going on. But why? Why are you behaving like this?” Has s/he not yet received the memo regarding Icesave? Vaknaðú núna Ísland!
Your people’s arrogance knows no boundaries. And could the Icenews team please incorporate balanced journalism? The columns here have been way too opinionated lately. It is not professional to use terms like “abuse of power” etc… You are to simply report the news and then let your readers decide what is and is not fair.
Again, this shows the level of professionalism in Iceland. Not only are the icelandic bankers proven amateurs, but your journalists are as well.
I’m sorry to say that Icelanders have much growing up to do, before it can hang with the true movers and shakers.
Now quit shopping at Sævar Karl (I could not believe how many of you were in there shopping yesterday…THAT’S NOT YOUR MONEY) and please return to your farms until you’ve learned your lesson, and your arrogance levels down a few notches.
As a Brit with £176k in ICESAVE, I feel for Icelandic people BUT the way the government dealt with it was very underhand. How would you feel it the situation was reversed and ICELAND savers had all there money in the UK and then we came along and froze all you money in our accounts but made sure the British national could withdraw there cash, you wouldnt be happy.
Also even up the day before ICESAVE was saying everything was ‘OK’, I gave them the benefit of the doubt and left my money in there what a mistake.
Britain has no responsibility to ICELAND, and Im sure if they wouldnt help the Brits if we were in the same situation as them.
As I said I do feel the ICELANDIC people, its the minority that has caused the problems for them. However the ICELANDIC government failed to regulate and this has what has happened. The ICELANDIC goverment should of got involved months ago.
To Burt:
You are definitely a professional abussive MASTER.
By they way, which BIG city were you grown up and educated from since you are so devine???
@ burt : I am not icelandic, but I am living there, and honestly you are speaking about arrogance … I have to say That I NEVER ever heard/ seen (read in your case)Such an arrogant speach.
Well At least the good thing for us, we will never see you around!
Pretty good news!
@ richard
I do understand what you mean, and I agree that the way you saw it was not giving you confidence.
I hope things will go fine with you and all english people ( except Burt ;-) )
Iceland ( and icelanders) a re noyt bad guys… well the gouverment is just a bit… rusty.
sincerly
To Burt:
You are a clown my friend!
Take a look at the balance sheets of the Icelandic banks you refer to and you will see they were in the same shape as every other well run bank in the world. They just did not have a 500 million pound rescue fund dished out by the government. There most certainly was a problem in the Icelandic financial system Burt, and thankfully people like you will not be responsible for its correction!
“hang with the true movers and shakers” – comic genius Burt! Which movers and shakers are you refering to, the ones that approved the UKs bailout or the ones that recieved it? What are you like 7? Does your Mum know you are on the computer? She most certainly would spank you if she knew of the trash you have been posting.
“In Iceland we have been told consistently that the Icelandic government has from the start of this crisis had every intention of paying their due to British savers.”
Mmmm… 2 points:
- They must have said that in the Icelandic language, for in English it was absent
- “their due”: sounds like “every cent/penny”, but that is not the case, is it?
Keep the artikels coming, Icenews. I find them very interesting
I would like to remind all posting their comments not to use bad language. Vulgar comments will NOT be approved.
Thank you,
Lenka, IceNews
Lenka I am sorry for the foul words, but it realy pisses me off when Gordon Brown is so eager to gain re-election that he doesn’t mind pushing Iceland off the cliff.
We Danes feel very strongly for our Icelandig brothers and sisters, and you have our support even if our National bank doesn’t have the cash to help.
I think what the Brits have not quite grasped in this is that Iceland is an extremely small country fighting fot its very survival. The British Govt would’t be asking a small British town with a population of 300 thousand to carry our National Debt and yet they seem to believe that they can expect Iceland to do just that. The Icelandic Govt has few options and bankrupting its few citizens is not an option. The Brits and the rest of Europe need to give some meaningful assistance.
Nigel (a disgusted Brit)
TO GreatDane:
I do understand that this situation evokes anger and expressions in foul words, which could as well be expressed without the use of dirty language. Ethics should not be breached by frantic times and angry readers on a news web – I think we both agree on that.
In case you cannot help yourself, please substitute the bad words by XXXX. As we cannot edit your comments, the vulgar will be deleted.
I have let this one, but please watch your language next time.
Thanks,
Lenka, IceNews
The Swedish approach was much better.
The Manager for the National bank Stefan Ingves, at the very beginning of the crisis stated that the money in Kaupthing EDGE is safe, and that people under no circumstances should initiate a bank-run. NO bank can survive a bank-run almost no matter how solid it is. You brits should be able to remember what happened to HBOS a solid business, not really a bank-run, but instead a stock-market slaughter.
Icelandig banks were solid, even bank of England said so, and accepted that municipalities all over the UK to put money in them.
You might feel hurt in the UK, but the victims who will suffer the most are ordinary Icelanders whose future looks very pale indeed.
So what happened in Sweden? well it went fine people are getting their money back as we speak, the business is being terminated in an organized manner. Not only that Kaupthing banks Sweden branch is still live and kicking.
Who knows? Maybe it could have been ifferent in the UK as well, if Gordon Brown wasn’t so eager to seek re-election by scoring some cheap points by kicking someone who is already on their knees?
I would like to know, as a point of fact, what the icelandic finance secretary said to Alastair Darling before the latter made his statement in parliament last week. It certainly seems hard to understand why Darling would have “made up” that Iceland’s government wasn’t (at that point) willing to meet its obligations, and in the process land himself with a bill of potentially several billion pounds. Can anyone shed any light on this?
Also, many news outlets reported that the Icelandic government requested that the Dutch government guarantee the deposits of savers in icesave.nl. Why would it have done this, if it was going to cover all deposits itself? Clearly such announcements would, by themselves, have done a lot to wreck confidence in Iceland as a safe financial location.
Finally, I think the way Icesave itself communicated with its customers did a lot of damage. You cannot just lock accounts and give no indication to customers what is going to happen: that is a certain way of making sure everyone withdraws their money as soon as they can.
Gordon Brown is way behind the Tory’s in the polls, this is like manna from heaven for a losing man seeking re-election.
finally he can show himself as a strong leader, and leave Blair’s shadow. Even if it had to be done by some very creative use of laws meant to deal with economics related to terrorist-organisations. This was never the scope of that law and I seriously doubt parliament had that in mind when passing the law.
And to Burt: DO you even know what balanced journalism is about? face it your papers are full of filth, and the ones who aren’t are full of Murdoch’s right-wing propaganda. Believe me I read enough UK news papers to know what I am talking about. The guardian steps up, and gives some balanced views, this website publish it, and you slam it down crawing “balanced” news? Keep reading “the sun” they got all the news and naked xxx you crave. And for gods sake get OFF the internet!!
I am sympathetic with the Icelandic cause but im upset with the poor news coverage. There is next to no coverage about the amount of money involved its not just the individual that has lost out but public services, councils, police and charities! also it feels like Iceland is using Britian and Gordon Brown as a scapegoat. I just hope that we can all still be friends.
Well done GreatDane!
Come on! The icelandic banks and the British investors just played the game like everyone else everywhere. It was nice while it lasted. Now the tide’s turn and it’s caugt up a few people unawares. Oh well… that’s life!!
I really can’t understand what the fuss is all about. Liberalism. Free market. Freedom in general (no one forces anyone to put their savings here or they do they?) bla bla bla
I mean, are people really so naive?? Do people really think they’ll ride the big wave forever??
It seems so. It seems that in the end it’s true that no one ever thinks about anyone but themselves. And no one ever thinks financial goodness come to an end. The cyclic thing etc.
Wake up people.
In response to Burt. On the arrogance issue, I am sure if you read your own comment you will recognise your own arrogance. This situation is a financial issue not an Icelandic one, so what right do you have to judge Icelanders.
As far as unbiased journalism goes, where in the world does that happen? have you ever read a newspaper?
The Financial Times newspaper which probably has a better grasp of the situation than you do, stated that Gordon Brown was acting unfairly towards Iceland. When huge American investors were failing, losing millions of foreign money, I did not see Brown threatening George Bush with anti terrorism acts. Now that IS unprofessional and an abuse of power. For your information the “true movers and shakers” will likely go the same way as the Icelandic “amateurs”.
You appear to be under the illusion that all the money invested in Icelandic banks was divided amongst the population of Iceland. Many people here will lose their savings that they have WORKED for, added to which the falling currency value, which is especially significant in Iceland, means that any imported goods will be much more expensive and beyond many peoples reach.
As an Englishman living in Reykjavik I know Icelanders to be honest and hardworking people, proud of their country and rightly so. It matters how they are perceived by the rest of the world. I am proud to live among these people and Iceland will come through this with hard work and determination to succeed, not by mudslinging or cheap shots by intellectually challenged underachievers.
Speaking as a British person, I think most British people understand full well that this crisis isn’t the doing of the Icelandic people.
People are frightened however because few of us except the very old who remember the Depression have ever seen a crash like the one that’s occurred over the past week.
Some people have been confronted with the possible loss of their life savings. And these aren’t millionaire speculators, but just ordinary people trying to save up for deposits to buy a flat or trying to safeguard their retirement.
People no longer know who or what to trust, so they look for someone to blame, someone to vent their fear on.
I’m very sorry for all the ordinary people in Iceland, Britain and everywhere else who are going so suffer as a result of this.
Sunday 12th October 2008.
Dear Iceland,
I hear Icelanders interviewed on the radio saying: “We needed the money, so we took it.” That is the law of the jungle. I wonder, do you teach your children in Iceland that if they have already eaten their sweets and want some more, then it is okay for them to steal sweets from a smaller child?
Your Prime Minster, Geir Haarde, who clearly has no better morals than Robert Mugabe, has no doubt told you that the money was taken from the bank accounts of rich Britishers who will be compensated by their government. Well we aren’t rich and we won’t be compensated. This is our story since last Wednesday until now, Sunday evening.
My wife and I, Canadians age 73 and 68 years respectively, live in Ireland. She has osteoporosis, so a fall means broken bones, and Ireland has no treacherous snow and ice.
We had our life savings in Kaupthing Singer & Friedlander on the Isle of Man. We did not put it there because it was a tax haven, indeed we declared the account to the Irish Revenue service and declared the interest income from it, but because Kaputhing provided a good service and allowed us to bank and write cheques in the currencies of the countries in which our far flung family, children and grandchildren, live – France, Britain, Ireland, Canada – and to bank the occasional very small royalty cheque which I still sometimes receive from the various countries in which I once sold scripts as a television writer – principally Britain, Canada, USA. These often amount only to a few pounds or dollars, and Kaupthing Singer & Friedlander were almost unique in not charging to cash these foreign currency cheques. Other banks would often have charged more than the cheque was worth.
So Kaputhing was a Godsend to us. We have held accounts there for twenty years, since it was called Jardine Fleming and was owned by the upright and honest Dutch. Then it became Singer and Friedlander and then it was bought by Kaupthing. Well, we were pleased because we thought that if one nation might be more dedicated to hard work and straight dealing even than the Dutch it must surely be the solidly reliable Icelanders – sort of Nordic Canadians. How wrong we were. We did not suspect that in reality you had fewer morals than a bunch of Somali pirates or Nigerian criminals. Incidentally, while mainland UK savers with Kaupthing are protected to some extent, those in the Isle of Man branch have no real protection.
Outside of Hollywood, television writing is not a particularly well paid profession. We came to have savings because, when I did have the occasional success, we did not rush out and spend the money, but saved it. And lucky we did because; out of touch with modern morality (or immorality) I have not sold a script for 14 years.
We live in a small rented cottage in Ireland. One thing we were planning to do with our savings was to buy somewhere of our own when house prices looked like they had finished falling. The money from the sale of our last house was part of the deposit account stolen by you Icelanders.
We drive a 14 year old car (since when I last sold a script), which is currently off the road and which I can not now afford to have repaired. How many Icelanders drive 14 year old rusting cars, or have no car at all? I shall join the other old men shuffling to the shops and the pub in the rain.
I had thought about getting a newer car and always dreamed of having a small boat. But my wife, who was a working class child in the aftermath of the Great Depression, was always able to persuade me not to spend but to save, save, save against a rainy day.
Now she is distraught and blaming herself. “We should have spent the money so they could not have stolen it. We should have bought a house” she sobs. “You should have bought a new car, a reliable one. You always wanted a little boat and now you will never have one.” And her grief becomes uncontrollable. Sometimes mine does too, but fortunately, so far, we have been able to comfort each other and discourage the inevitable occasional thought of suicide.
Yesterday evening I phoned our youngest son in Canada. He has a 2 year old son and a 2 week old daughter. He works as a carpenter, not a very well paid job. They live in rented rooms. And, as they could not afford to buy a house he was, with our financial help, building one himself from wood at the edge of a forest. All summer long, in the evenings after work and at weekends, he has braved mosquitoes and laboured on this project. I have seen pictures. It is wonderful, a work of true craftsmanship and art. Or it will be if ever it is finished. Last night I telephoned him with the news that we have no money to pay for the final stages of construction. Without a finished roof the house will not likely survive the rigours of a Quebec winter. By the snow melt all his labour of the summer will have fallen into ruin. They face the rest of their lives living with two young children in dingy rented rooms in Montreal. Grandchildren that, thanks to you, we will probably never see.
We have two older grandchildren who have, through study and hard work and not by going to unaffordable private schools, won themselves places at good Universities. They have just started there and we promised to fund them through College. I have not yet found in myself the courage to tell them we can not pay. But this evening, somehow, I must.
On Friday we learned that our beloved dog must have a cancerous tumour removed as soon as possible. The operation will cost a thousand Euros. We no longer have the money, so he will die. I will, somehow, find the hundred Euros needed to give him a pain free death at home by the fire and in my arms, rather than alone in a cold cage at the vets, some time next week – when I can face it.
Because, enjoying the freedom of a writer’s life, we travelled and worked in many different countries over the years, we are not entitled to a proper old age pension from any of them. Knowing this we saved to pay our own way in old age, saved with Kaupthing Singer and Friedlander. God help us.
.
However; Ireland is a civilised country, and when I can prove to the authorities here that we are destitute we will get some form of help. So we shall probably not starve or go homeless. We shall see.
I have no way to get back at you. All I can do is see that my children and grandchildren, and hopefully their children and grandchildren, hear the saga of how Icelanders stole our hard earned savings to pay off their gambling debts, and learn from our misfortune that you can not trust an Icelander or any business run by them.
So, dear Icelanders, enjoy the money you stole from us.
Perhaps I should have put our savings in a Nigerian bank. They might have been more honest.
Yours,
Roger Price.
Roger… I’m very sad to hear about your tribulations and certainly wish you and your family all the best. As an Icelander I’m sorry that you see fit to blame your misfortune on me, my family and all my countrymen. I urge you to keep reading the news from all sides of the matter. You sure can put a pen to paper… I ask you please to write again once the dust has settled. It’s my understanding that your savings might not be all that lost.
Failure of banking Institutions or even Publically listed Companies is hardly a new concept. These things happen. Putting aside whose fault it is there should be no involvement of the British Government when failures occur abroad involving their own citizens. When institutions fail in the UK we are reminded in the case of buying shares that investments can go up as well as down. The real reason underlies the British Governments attempts at meddling in affairs out of their reach again. british local authorities had placed considerable amounts with Icelandic banks to take advantage of the lucrative returns. Now things are effectively f****ed up they expect the money back. I dont agree….shareholders are not bailed out at all by governments. Though i agree a percentage should be given back over time, but only what is stated in the statute of that sovereign state and no more.
sam these arnt shareholders who want there money back these are savers who are protected by eu law so what do you think i thought when my money that i had saved with icesave all the sudden locked out of am not a shareholder just a person with a normal person who was doing the right thing and keeping my money safe? i have every right to start to demand my money back that feels like its been stolen by the islandic authorities
Dear Icelandic Government,
Stand your ground. Do not be bullied into returning funds you do not have. You will be taking your country folk back to before the industrial revolution w.r.t debt burden and interest payments. It is your Banks that have folded. You have an obligation toward your own people and to a lesser degree that of any other foreign national9 and or investors) w.r.t deposits of funds. The greed of the local Authorities to use your Banks when needed to fill coffers was all well and good. This is the underlying eason for the anslaught. the british Government doesnt care for its own people but not having to prop up its own Local Authorities. These are political reasons. The Labour Government can be brought down to its knees on this one.
Dear ste,
Look I feel for you. One question. Why did you invest in Icesave. sorry SAVE with Ice Save. Were you advised to do so , or did you do your own research.
I do feel for you. if you dont mind me asking how much do stand to lose? My point is this . The ‘Great ‘ British Government as we write is looking to bail out Uk banks . Look for the news tomorrow.
Scare Mongering has created the market turbulence in addition to Human Greed factors. I do feel you will get a fraction of your money back in accordance with EU law. The Uk Government agenda is not with you but as mentioned before Local Authorites, Police force, and to a lesssssser degree Charities.
The UK Local Authorities need to be investigated and their Mandates posted to each constituent.
1.Central Government gives each Local Authority every Financial year
2. Local Authorities raise funds through Council Tax. Parking Fines, Parking Meters etc
3. Local Authorities spend funds to meet the needs pf its Borough.
A great deal of money is raised in 2. above . Is the Government actually aware that Tax Payer Money is invested by local Authorities in addition to funds received. Is this actually legal ? Are the Tax Payers aware of this or been made aware of where their local fund money is going and why certain services are cancelled or restricted. It appears that prior to this ICELAND problem the Local Authorities haven’t been properly audited and been using funds as their own Piggy Bank. Pleas comment
What a muddle this all is, for everyone.
Who to blame (from a UK point of view), how about starting with ING Direct? Why?
They came to the UK market offering on-line banking offering good rates of interest to UK saver. At the time the normal UK banks were giving saver derisory interest, so bad it probably wasn’t worth saving any money. So loads invested in ING Direct, and got used to on-line banking and were happy. But they didn’t realise that the rates offered were “hoike” rates, the fat wriggly worm rate to hook the saver who was “hoiked” into ING Direct. Once enough investors had been “hoiked” the rates were dropped back leaving customers p***ed off. I’ve heard that this is standard ING practice and they usually get away with it in Europe, but this is the UK and it doesn’t work like that here.
Then up pops Icesave. On-line banking with a good rate of interest. No banana republic country, good Nordic hard working country. AAA+ ratings from the clever ratings agencies, all above board, acceptable to the UK Financial Services Authority AND an easy to use web site with call centre staffed with people who can speak understandable English and understand the English being spoken to them (a far cry from the cut price call centres in India used by the UK banks). So that’s where the money went, out of ING into Icesave (and others). Why worry? The first £35,000 is guaranteed.
When the storm clouds gathered what were we told -
not exposed to the American sub-prime market
had not lent stupid amounts for people to by houses which couldn’t be repaid
Icelandic banks were safe for depositors.
However when the brown stuff hit the fan what did the Icelandic government do, shoot themselves in the foot! They would not be paying out UK savers under their compensation scheme. They could have said they were entering into discussions with the UK government regarding compensation, but no, a straight default.
I for one am glad my government has had the bottle to freeze assets!
I have no doubt that common sense on both sides will prevail and an agreement will be reached to the benefit of both the Icelandic and UK peoples.
Re. GreatDane :
You state the U.K.papers are full of filth,
You then go on to say
”Believe me I read enough UK news papers to know what I am talking about.”
Your own word’s.and I don’t doubt you.
Sam,
Local Authorities get their money in infrequent big lumps but spend it in frequent small amounts. It’s recommended practice for money to be deposited in banks to earn interest until it is needed. Its also recommended that they need to spread money around rather than have it in one place. With their high credit ratings and high interest Icelandic banks were actually recommended to Local Authorities as suitable places in which to deposit money.
But Icelandic banks have gone tits up. Hindsight is a wonderful thing
I am so angry with your point of view.. I slam GORDON BROWN for trying to make political gain out of this debacle. Iceland ae o different to us… how dare Gordon Brown attempt to humilate Iceland without a deabate. Sweep him out fast! Does ghe realise that if the turn tables were reversed it would be as if Iceland are asking UK to give them 2.5 TRILLION in cash! That by the way is is 50 times the annual cost of the NHS or more…
And there is more.. the money lost is largely invested by the cousins of the Government.. IE COUNCILS! As we have invested 500 billion why should we make political gains from just 0.0020% of this… we are all bust anyway so leave the little folk in the North alone and let’s move on and get over it! TAX the second homes and and our children will be far happier… ! CASE CLOSED.. Gordon I am angry with you…
As I see it Gordon did what was necessary to get Iceland to discuss honouring their commitment to cover the savings guarantee that was stated as being in place. The original Icelandic one sided “we aren’t going to pay what we agreed to guarantee” would quite clearly have serious consequences!
@Roger Price
Please check out the emergency law enforced in Iceland because of this crisis…
http://eng.vidskiptaraduneyti.is/media/frettir/Act_No125-2008.pdf
This article is very describing of the situation.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/80f767e4-9882-11dd-ace3-000077b07658.html
Relative articles:
http://eng.forsaetisraduneyti.is/news-and-articles/nr/3049
http://eng.forsaetisraduneyti.is/news-and-articles/nr/3050
http://www.fme.is/?PageID=146
So what the website you visited shut down, your money is still in the bank, the UK government just froze it.
Uk journalism isn´t wort shit, they cant deliver a clear message a whole nation is crying out….
WE WILL HONOR OUR OBLIGATIONS
Sp what if our Gov pays us more in the end (if they do not raise money for the whole by selling assets)
We pay them taxes.
You were not dealing with the Icelandic gov, you were dealing with a company, a bank. They made mistakes and it has nothing to do with Icelanders in general. (bad journalism in the UK)
Those who collect your taxes should guarantee your savings, do you not get anything for your taxmoney, no guarantees or anything?
We are FXXXX willing to pay but appreciate the fact that no law says we have to, we are being kind to you sour losers…
I´ve busted my ass trying to help people find the right places and people to contact, delivering letters and shit.
Two af them have said “thank you for your troubles” and I appreciated it so dearly, I do not want to be one of those Icelanders you are describing, I´m really not like that, not even close.
Never will be.
It´s like saying “all brits bomben Dresden and Berlin to peices” just to get even.
Killing inoscent people 100s and 1000s…
So are you all killers?
We are not scum, we are not theives, we are not all bankers, we are trying to get by, just like you are.
There are about 320.000 Icelanders in the same situation you are in right now, and you want us to be sorry for you, your granchildren etc.
Your own Darling said:
31. Mr Speaker, I’ve always been clear that each country needs to do whatever is needed to deal with its own particular circumstances.
$%/#/(=/&
We cannot edit comments, only accept or decline them. We accepted the above comment because the links are interesting and the general point welcome. But please, everyone, avoid using swear words.
Thanks
IceNews Team
Hi Kjartan,
You must also understand that the Isle of Man is not a part of the United Kingdom. It’s a British crown colony with its own political system etc and it constitutes its own financial area. The UK laws on guarantee of savings don’t apply on the Isle of Man anymore than they do in France, Japan or Bermuda.
So, people with savings in the Isle of Man based branch of Kaupthing have a real problem (potentially). In any case, much more severe than those with accounts held in the UK business. I believe Guernsey (Channel Islands), likewise not part of the UK, was also home to an Icelandic bank operation. However, the Guernsey authorities do/did have some form of savings guarantee in place. Isle of Man did not.
My personal view on this situation is that it is sad that Brown is using Iceland to make himself look tough and capable of fighting against the banking crisis. However, just because he is doing this, does not mean Iceland is also blameless. Icelanders must remember that as they understandable see the UK government’s action as ‘anti-Icelandic’, it’s hard not to see Iceland’s actions as ‘anti-foreigner’. Guaranteeing the money in Icelandic citizens’ accounts in the domestic Icelandic operations of the banks whilst declining to offer concrete guarantees for non-Icelandic savers is hardly more moral than Brown’s rhetoric.
Im English but live in Iceland.
Gordon Brown has made such an error, Killing Icelands Most profitable bank in one day, That had nothing to do wih Icesave.
I spent the other evening e-mailing various news and radio programmes in the UK telling them What was going on here and asking them WHY their Printed stories were to the contary. (No response’s)
This week it looks like Iceland will indeed and rightfully so, Issue a law suit against GB and The British Gverment for their actions of the TERROISM that made Kaupthink drown from being the healthiest swimmer in the Hot Tub’s Here.
It Saddens me to be English more and more every day : (
When you are dealing with a situation like this, you need to be very careful with your words. Iceland’s government was vague about its commitment to savers at best, and at worst implied that it would not honour those commitments. What else is a country like the UK to do to protect hundreds of thousands of its own people than to act the way it did. I am married to an Icelander and have family in Iceland and I truly fear for the situation there and in other small countries exposed to the market to the extent Iceland was. In addition I cannot see how Iceland can manage its obligations to the extent that it let them build up to. The UK can afford to support and bail out its banks and ensure they honour their commitments. If Iceland cannot do the same, there needs to be a better way of dealing with this – ie no small banks playing in multi-national markets without sufficient national backing.
WOW much has been writen but nothing that is helpful
first lets look at the english press.
some years ago there was starvation in a many countries, and lots of other stuff that needed attention so here i was living in Iceland. i picked up the news of the world, and what was on the front page, BET Quits Corranation street
i was totaly discusted with that crap more concern about a soap opera, than starving children, i have never read an english paper since then, i do not like to insult my mind with crap like that,
so now the whole world seems to be pointing fingers at everyone else, let me say that the Icelandic poeple are great poeple that you can trust, i would rather call myself icelandic than english any day of the week, i lived in England for my first 20 years then Iceland the next 20 years,i am not proud to be british, every one in Icleand is going through the same as others in fact they are going through more, what is happening is from a few icelandic men that messed up, The point i want to make is this , Stop moaning it is not going to change anything, the Icelanders are probally not sitting around and crying, they are busy making plans,i lost everything i owened last year so i have been through it and i know what it feels like, everyone is feeling that they have been hit by a bus going at 100mph per hour, Every body needs to be positive, get focused again, stop watching the news stop reading the press , dont listen to poeple who are moaning, ok yes right now many are hurting and you lost everything but many of you never had a dime when you started and you made money so you can do it again , i sorry for the old couple that wrote above that must be difficult but you will get through, Every one has to stop feeling sorry for themselfs, come one poeple we can learn so much from all of this and make changes,
I was dealing with the only Icelandic owned bank branch that was, according to all information, on a sound footing with assets and deposits that far outstripped their commitments. This I was told by Kaupthing S&F Isle Of Man over the phone on Friday 3rd October, and again when I dragged myself to their Isle Of Man office first thing Tuesday 7th.
If they were not telling the truth then they were defrauding me. If they were telling the truth then it was that rare thing, a solvent Icelandic Bank, and the assetts of its depositors were deliberately, and I think illegally, taken by the Icelandic parent to meet their commitments to Icelanders in Iceland. Mr Haarde said he would repatriate the funds of offshore banks, registered and doing business in other jusridictions in order to save the economy of Iceland. And he did just that. I’m sorry, but any way I look at that it looks like theft to me.
I have heard Icelanders saying on the BBC that Iceland took the foreign depositors savings because Iceland needed the cash. In what way, will some Icelander please explain, is that not outright theft?
I need money now, if only to save the life of my dog. Who do you suggest I go out and rob in order to get it? Should I expect the police and the judge to accept my need as sufficient justification for stealing? If I come to Iceland and hold a gun in the face of a bank clerk and rob a bank there will you give me a cup of tea and sympathy or will you throw me in prison?
What’s the difference?
Many of the posts on this site have made me realise that Icelanders, perhaps because you too are frightened, remain unrepentant for ruining me, my life and the lives of several members of my family.
If Iceland pays me back I may feel more warmly towards that country and it’s people. Otherwise, forgive me; I do not hate you for being Icelanders, but will continue to despise you for having no sense of what is right and what is wrong.
Roger Price
Alan matthews ‘
As an ex. Englishman, you never seemed to have much luck with your spelling lesson’s.
From an Englishman and very proud of it.
John
haha expected to get some thing like that all poeple see is whats wrong, you went through what i wrote and saw 4 mistakes wow big deal, or maybe more,
check it out
http://www.icenews.is/index.php/2008/10/13/richard-portes-analyses-the-shocking-errors-of-icelands-meltdown/
I have said it before on this site and i will say it again. I am ashamed to be English and PROUD to live in Iceland. The reason you don’t see many Icelanders complaining is that we are trying to get on with life. We are not moaning about losing everything. We accept the fact it is gone. Do not bring on sob story’s as the regular non bank owning Icelander’s including me have it much worse and for much longer…years and years, and it will affect every child growing up in Iceland. No one stole any money.. in fact i’m sure i read somewhere that under extream financial situations we don’t have to pay anything back… BUT as it has been said all along from day one Iceland will meet its responsibilities. I kept hold of my British nationality for 21 years here in Iceland now im going to become Icelandic so i can be proud of MY country.
APB
Good on you
now your a real icelandic , we hould start a club called we got smart and dropped the english passport club
Alan
should start a club need to get new key board lol
I am also ashamed to call myself British, I only wish I could afford to move to Iceland to be amongst the most hard working, honest, happy and contented people in the world.
Joan you can move
just go for it
I do think that when the dust settles in a few moons, We will all be in a better place.
I mean there has been to much money on the planet,in recent years everything is about money and greed, maybe this will get us back to thinking and doing only what is neccesary, i.e. water and food, family n friends.
I was listening to teh world service broadcast the other day and A woman from kenya called the programme and said, “what are you people like, you have everything that we dream of and you go crazy cos you lost some of your investments, we dont even have running water” It did sort of put a better perspective on the situation from one angle of life.
Alan matthews
‘’should start a club need to get new key board lol”
Suggest you pop around to your nearest branch of Icesave Bank and tell them as they have all of my pension fund,
can they let you have enough for a new keyboard.?
John
i lost money too mate
but i just see the challenge in this great to start over
i found out two things the last few years that has become a truth
money does not make you happy and not having money makes you miserable, ps i can see 5 spelling mistakes in this how many can you see
Alan, yes we should start a club. and good luck on getting a new keyboard. let me know if you find any money that Mr Brown and his Darling haven’t frozen and sold off, i sort of need food for my kids ;)
Joan, you can join and move here:)
Dear people,may be your comments should not be made with out this information to help you decide why the British government is acting this way,I am an English person living in Iceland for over twenty years at the beginning of my life here a close family member worked in a certain department of the British government(now retired)a job which required a indept interrogation one of the Qs which was always asked was this persons relationship & points of view to my living in a small village that was dominated by a communist political party.I was not or had I any thing to do with Icelandic politics I was just a young person who was here to work in the fish like so many foreigners in the 80s.This came up in conversation many years ago when visiting England during the same conversation I asked why it was always a big deal me living in Iceland this is the answer I received,I quote ” The British government have a file on Icelandic s going back to world war two this file also contains every person that has Business with Russian,Chinese,Korean company’s the British government have Iceland on a list as one of its distrustful country’s,they have never liked the relationship between Iceland & china or especially Russia,They have an agreement with America to keep Iceland under there control,weather though the financial markets or imports or exports,You are working in a fish factory that has a contract with Russia & China,now you know why I am always Questioned about you” Unquote,Now you people can make up your own minds as to what is going on but let me remind you that Russia, has recently invaded a country that upset the Americans & there is no more Americans in Keflavik.Also it was reported that Russia has approved a loan to Iceland,Also keep in mind that above Iceland there is a very large sea of ice that is getting smaller because of global warming & unclaimed sea which in the near future could be passed under the ice in submarines by what ever country claims it need I say more.
mr un named
while you are correct in some matters you did not mention that iceland bought iol from russia even in the cold war, Iceland is a place that is open to all, and nobody has the right to tell Icelandics that they cant buy things from other countries, i realy think that the world can learn so much from Iceland and the way of thinking, for example, every one in Iceland pushes every body to do well, it does not matter were you come from.
@John im glad your proud to be british
you must be proud of the crime rate
you must be proud that you have to check were your children are at all times and worry about the perverts,
you must be proud that you cant go in to pubs and relax just incase some one will stab you or start a fight with you
you must be proud that you have to lock everyting away thats in your car
you must be proud of the house alarms and the crime cams every where
you must be proud of the racism
you must be proud of poeple who pull down any one who tries to do better than others,
you must proud of the dole bums who steal from the goverment and work on the side
,but i am proud of the Queen
tell me John what on earth is there to be proud of in England, and stop looking for the spelling mistakes lol
To my friends in Iceland,
I really hope you can solve your problems. I spent the best two holidays of my life in your fantastic country. I am shocked by the way your country is being bullied by our inept government. Gordon Brown is not winning any friends here. Your country is a an ally and a friend to the UK. When my friends are in trouble, I help them through it. I hope when we have voted the nasty Gordon Brown out of office the bad feeling will end between our two countries. I will be visiting Reykjavik in a couple of weeks, so please don’t blame me for the actions of the UK government. I’ll help you out in my own little way by making sure I eat a lot of your fantastic lamb and drink a good many shots of the world’s best vodka! See you soon!
Alan matthews
And I thought according to you we were ‘mates’
I see your spelling is still not improving.
You can do it but you just have to concentrate.
That’s if you can do two thing’s at the same time?
By the way as they say ‘Thou shalt not steal’
BIGTIME!
Hello readers,
Is Iceland in a RECESSION (Kreppa) you would not have thought so last weekend. I am British and lived in Iceland many years. I have said to many people over the past few years that the big bubble would burst and it did not take a rocket scientist to figger that out?
Iceland is in financial troubles but must icelanders are in denile they spend money like no tomorrow, actually they spend money what isnt theres all on credit. Last weekend friday nigth and saturday night there are so many drunken icelanders are thet trying to drown there sorrows?
Wake up and take responsibility for your country and earn the money before you spend it.
ex pat: “Iceland is in financial troubles but must icelanders are in denile they spend money like no tomorrow, actually they spend money what isnt theres all on credit.”
You will find that this statement eerily also applies to the UK. Actually you can just substitute Iceland for UK in that sentence without any problems.
Re. GreatDane said:
ex pat: “Iceland is in financial troubles but must icelanders are in denile they spend money like no tomorrow, actually they spend money what isnt theres all on credit.”
You will find that this statement eerily also applies to the UK. Actually you can just substitute Iceland for UK in that sentence without any problems.
——————————————-
NOT TRUE! And what money we do spend is our money,and not money taken from savings accounts that are illegally taken from foreign bank’s.!
I am surprised that Icelanders say and believe their government commit to meet all depositors in Icelandic banks. Tell that to the tens of thousands of depositors who have lost their life savings , homes and much more when Kaupthng IOM shut down overnight. In 2007 Kaupthing stated that all deposits in Kaupthing IOM were guaranteed by the Parent company..its in writing.
Today their Prime minister denied they were responsible. Unfortunately Iceland has now ben branded a Leper country and willnever be trysted unless their government wakes up very quickly and comes to the table and offers a plan…itsnot very hard , investerd will wait for their money but they want it back eventually…but Iceland has chosen to ignore this issue and simply try and run away…..they will eventually pay a much higher price for this action of national theft.
Ken Tomsett….please update yourself on the news.
As a Brit, I would just like to convey my good wishes and sympathy to Icelanders in these difficult times, and hope that your country’s financial problems can be resolved swiftly. There seems to have been some unhelpful posturing by politicians in both countries, playing to their national audiences. I’m sure though that most Brits and Icelanders appreciate the obvious truth that the global financial crisis affects us all and isn’t the fault of any one country.
www.ksfiomdepositors.com
Read a thousand sad stories of how honest hard working people have lost everything….and Iceland still refuse to offer a plan…they have walked away.
We will never forget
As of writing there are only 69 members in that group? so to reach even 1000 sad stories each member will have 14.49 stories to tell? Quite chatty aren’t they?
“As an Icelander I’m sorry that you see fit to blame your misfortune on me, my family and all my countrymen.”
Folks, it’s your elected government, it’s your bankers, and it’s your inaction to demand reglations and responsibile policy that created the mess! Did anybody force you to vote for the center right government whose deregulation and privatizing policies made this possible? Did anyone force you to let your banks become so much larger than the rest of your economy? Did anybody force you to live way beyond your means, buying expensive cars, huge house and whatever luxuries (new concert hall, hmm?) with money borrowed abroad? Did anybody force you to keep your mouth shut and not demand preparations for the inevitable downturn from your banks and ministers? Well?
Sure, other nations engaged in similar behaviour, but not at this scale. As a result, those nations are now able to live up to their responsibility, at great costs for their taxpayers. You, dear Icelanders, let greed trump all reasonable concerns, and now you demand other nations to pay for your debt. And you even go so far as blaming your victims for falling for your false promises. That’s rich, to say it diplomatically.
And not exactly a good idea, regarding the fact that you’re a nation depending largely on imports that you can’t pay for since your currency is toxic. That’s a situation where pointing fingers at others doesn’t really help. Humbleness would be a better reation. Start eating crow. It’s time for a change.
Oh, and as for the “arrogance” topic, imho you’re sitting in a glass house. The unashamed boasting and the rididucling of others, shown by your very own president is scandalous:
http://www.grapevine.is/Features/ReadArticle/How-to-Succeed-in-modern-business-Olafur-Ragnar-Grimsson-at-the-walbrook-club
“what money we do spend is our money”
I guess that’s a popular view in Iceland right now, especially for the majority who didn’t sign foreign currency credits. However, if you look at the economic reality, it’s only half the truth, if at all. All the last years, Iceland imported more goods and services than it exported. Where do you think the money came from? It was the money invested by foreign investors, big and small, who relied on the phony assurances and trusted your banks with their money. This was a large part of the money that fueled your economy, and provided your incomes, as stated by the IMF in the alarming report of July 2008:
http://www.imf.org/external/np/ms/2008/070408.htm
This was the money that was used to inflate your very own Iceland bubble, whose bursting created the mess. So, contrary to other nations that suffer from the US bubble, Iceland brought it onto itself.
Well, at least not all was wasted on luxury imports and pompuos constructions but some was invested in industries that actually produce exportable goods (like aluminium), or reduce oil dependence (like hydro energy). This will come in handy in this crisis and in the long run it will help Icelanders to pay off all those debts and really earn their own money. But right now the nation depends on international goodwill and credits to pay for even the most necessary imports, because nobody will accept ISKs as a payment. So, spending their “own money” is an illusion right now. Many of the goods will have to be paid with hard currency borrowed from other nations. And it would be good if Icelanders became aware of this.
Gray, Germany: How can you call it an alarm report?
A: you are not familiar with the English language or B: you haven’t read it?
The report in general give a very positive image of the icelandic economy. It outlines problems, but also that the the authorities are working with them.
Speaking of Germany the IMF had alarms with regards to your economy, they believe you are going to have problems paying for pensions in the future, because the German government doen’t have a pension fund.
The good news France is in much deeper shit than you are ;)
Firstly, I didn’t write “alarm report”, I wrote “alarming report”. Do YOU have any problems with the English language?
Secondly, the IMF report, as an official, public document, is of course written i a diplomatic prose. But still, look at this:
“At present, however, the economy is at a difficult and uncertain turning point. The long home-grown, foreign-funded boom is coming to an end. Its legacies are overstretched private sector balance sheets, large macroeconomic imbalances, and high dependence on foreign financing. With tightening global liquidity conditions and fragile market sentiment, Iceland’s banks and currency have come under significant pressure. In response, banks have started to slow lending growth and rationalize balance sheets. As liquidity constraints are becoming more binding, the overheated economy is showing signs of cooling.”
Only one of several paragraphes expressing dire concerns. You don’t call this alarming? Maybe you shold ask a banker to translate this to you.
Great Dane ‘Smarty pants’ talks of 69 members in that goup……well todate there are 948 postings all with a story…but lets not be silly…a great number of hard working citizens have lost everything..thats extremely sad in itself…one single mother had just received a damagespayout for her son after a serious car crash to care for him over his lifetime and naturally tried to maximise that payout..now she is at her wits end…and so many similar stories of human tragesty…NO..Iceland has at some point to stand up and talk about a solution.
Panic is irrational and causes severe financial suffering. However, if there is going to be a panic then he who panics first often wins the game. I see that Icelanders are not sufficiently panicing yet about the coming food shortages and hardships. These won’t affect everyone, but if ten percent of the population goes hungry you don’t want to be in that ten percent if panicing early can help avoid it.
Gray: I read quite a lot of credit reports at my work, and I wouldn’t call it alarming in general.
You should try and read what the IMF have to say about your pension funds or lack of it in Germany. they are saying right outright the current German public economy is going to collapse if you do not take action.
Grey: But still as a German you can be pleased that the French is far worse off :)
Well Ken what can I say, the Icelandic PM never said anything other than Iceland would live up to it’s financial obligations. There certainly is reason to be worried, but until Geir Haarde changes his signals all isn’t lost.
Oh and besides anyone can post on the forum? you don’t even have to be a mamber? Maybe I should go and post my own story.
My husband and I have lost one third of our pension in the KSF(IOM) venture that was directly owned by Kaputhing in Iceland. Nothing to do with the UK operation. Our money was held in Iceland unbeknown to us. Please will the Icelandic government return our money, it is not theirs, it is not the icelandic peoples, IT IS MINE. Until the Icelandic Goverment pledge to return 100% of the money they took there will be major resentment shown to the Icelandic people.
Lins-in-da-bush: You are not making sense, you will show resentment to an entire group of people? Of of which 99% have absolutely nothing to do with all this?
And besides they have pledged to live up to their financial obligations.
Oh and with regards to KSF, call Downing street 10, there lives the thief who stole the company and gave it to the Dutch.
You should show major resentment towards all British people because of what Gordon Brown did!! I know it will make relations with your neigbours hard, but that’s what you have to do.
I am an English person living in Iceland and have been reading all the above comments. I´ve lost money in Landsbanki and I am unlikely to ever see it again (this is money I have been saving for the last 7 years). 10-15 years ago Icelanders were a hard working nation, a lot of people had two jobs and both parents worked. As things got better and the economy boomed, greed took over. For a lot of people (especially those in the banking and finance) there was a race to have the biggest apartment, the newest car etc. People took 100% mortgages and huge car loans(which is crazy in any country). It actually became a joke when you saw someone driving down the street in a flash new car, that it didn´t belong to them but the bank!
Icelandic business people became arrogant with their neighbours (Denmark, Sweden, Norway) buying up whatever they could with loans from the banks. Now they are suprised that no one wants to help.
THat said, this is no different to what is happening all over the world, the problem is that in a country of only 320,000 its incredibly obvious! Personal debt in Britain has risen to all time highs, people use credit cards like an addition to their monthly salary.
I love Iceland and I hate what´s happening to it. This is a beautiful country, with a low crime rate and good people that got led astray by greed and the mistaken idea that money increases happiness.
Iceland will come out of this by sheer stubborness and viking grit and at the end of the day may survive better than a lot of other european countries.
Being a banker myself I was a bit concerned when a friend from Iceland told me his car loan was in a mixture of Yen and Swiss francs. I mean it is absolutely not something I would endorse my customers to do, businesses do this all the time, but they operate differently than family units.
Re. GreatDane Oct.16.
Having read some of your posting’s I was drawn to your statement today,”Being a banker myself ”
(your spelling)
I noticed you never replied to my posting dated :
On Oct 12, 2008, John said: (Re.On this post)
Do we therefore assume 2+2 make 4?
As they say’If you live in a greenhouse you do not throw stones’!
To Great Dane….If only the Icelandic government would really agree that they will live up to their financial obligations….the prime minister was interviewed last night and he refused to say just that…all we ask is (well me anyway) that the icelandic government promise to work with us to solve the problem and accept that Kaupthing owe us what we deposited…thats all…
As for the average people of iceland ….my God….I agree the ones I have met are lovely people and only those who have little or no awareness will blame it directly on Mr average Islander….pls …Icelanders I hope will always be our friends..
B Rgds
Ok John here is my answer:
“Do we therefore assume 2+2 make 4?” correct you show hidden talents in maths.
“As they say’If you live in a greenhouse you do not throw stones’!” I do not live in a greenhouse so I am free to throw as many stones as I like.
Ken: Iceland only have 2 choices, either they live up to their financial obligations or they do not. It is not a buffet where they have the liberty to choose which obligations to honour or not.
As I stated before a state can not go in bankrupcy, as it would be impossible for a 3rd. party to forcefully liquidate a foreign state’s assests.
Argentine and Thailand have failed to meet it’s financial obligations, so it is something that happens now and then, but we shall not compare Iceland with these 2 countries.
They are in a tough spot at the moment, but they never said anything other than they plan to fullfill their financial obligations.
Kaupting Friedlander & Singer is complicated since the Bank is Dutch owned and not Icelandic, it will take some time figure out how to solve that.
KFS is not Dutch..( The UK Kaupthing was taken over by ING ) …The IOM Bank Kaupthing IOM that I talk of had a parental guarantee from the parent Kaupthing in Iceland…written in Sept 2007 but since Kaupthing IOM went down Iceland has reneged on that guarantee…8500 investers have lost everything…some almost suicidal…its a very complicated isue and actually I do believe that Brown was part of the downfall…but we havnt seen the transcript .( between Brown and the Icelandic finance mnister) ..there is litigation on both sides….the best thing is to go to www.ksfiomdepositors.com ….its a very desperate web site with many very sad stories….I personally think that only politicians can solve this…now and I agree Browns attitude is disgusting but also Iceland have to come to the table…..I wish you well
@Ken.
Some of these constructions that the Icelandic banks created are very creative indeed. I must admit that I misjudged many parts of their operation, but I am not sad because it really is complicated.
I am sure there are possibly 100’s of accountants sitting in this moment to try and find out what goes where. What loans are good, which loans are bad, how much liquidity can be called in as of right now. Which loans are so good that some other bank might even buy them.
It is easy to get the impression that nothing is happening and people are left to fend for their own, but I am sure this is not the case.
I am sorry to say that Iceland has now become a financial pariah state.
Your current woes are only the tip of the “iceberg”, with Iceland becoming gradually more isolated from the rest of the world community.
Who in there right mind would ever invest in anything related to Iceland or Icelanders.