The EFTA surveillance authority, the ESA, has ruled that the Icelandic authorities are required to pay out the minimum insurance amount on Icesave deposits in the UK and Netherlands.
The ESA ruling came in the form of a 24 page document sent to the Icelandic government today.
The amount in question is up to a maximum of EUR 20,000 for each Icesave account.
The ESA has always been of the opinion that Iceland is responsible to pay and demanded a formal response from Reykjavik which was sent in May. After analysing that response in great detail, the ESA did not change its opinion: Iceland must pay up.
After two Icesave repayment deals were toppled in public referendums, Iceland’s official position is that the bankrupt estate of Landsbanki bank should pay the British and Dutch back — something it now appears the bank will be able to do in full.
The ESA document states that if the Icelandic government does not pay up, the organisation will take the case to the EFTA court. The Icelandic government publicly stated at the time of the last referendum that the case would probably go to court and the country’s finance minister said he would like it to happen as soon as possible.
If Landsbanki is able to fully pay up, the EFTA court case would purely be about whether or not the Icelandic government should pay interest for the time Britain and Holland spent waiting.
The full ESA Report can be read, in English, here.
>And everyone knows that banks limited warranties.
The warranties are not from the banks themselves though, are they.
>Just I placed money at an account at the Bank of Scotland. The warranty is limited to 20,000 EUR only.
Only 20k euros? Surely if the account is in the UK it’s actually £85k, if it’s in another EU country it’s 100k euros. The 20k euros would only refer to the portion that you’d need to reclaim from the UK FSCS if the bank was operating as a branch (rather than a subsidiary) in your country.
@Terry
Investors accept risks and depositors expect deposit guarantees to be met?
Everyone knows that banks give out umbrellas when the sun is shining, and demand back the umbrellas when it rains. And everyone knows that banks limited warranties. And everyone knows that high interest rates mean high risk. This of course is only for idiots, and not for rapacious.
Last year I placed money at a German bank. The bank became insolvent. I was an idiot again. The amount was again lower than the guaranteed limit.
Just I placed money at an account at the Bank of Scotland. The warranty is limited to 20,000 EUR only.
The debt must be repaid – in any cases? Thanks, my consultant!!!
I will immediately transfer EUR 50,000 to my account. Should the Bank of Scotland get into trouble … how was your account number, my consultant? I also accept a check :-)
I just heard your speculation was successful: high interest rates cashed and the money comes back too. Congratulations. You will return your interest income you did received too much? No gift, no generosity, please! The difference between 6.1 % and 3 %. To ‘save face’ only! – A pity, there is no face – behind the face of John Gleese.
Bernhard Pangerl, did write :
>So I accepted 3% interest rate, and waived the risk. That is the law: who wants to >have more, get more: Interest rates and risk.
>I would be a complete idiot, if now rapacious collect the high interest rates, but may >reject the risk.
>No risk, no fun :-)
Unfortinately all this state backed guarantees has bought many want to ignore this basic fact. Still I am amzaed when I did see people complaining not only about getting back their principal they deposited by also interest for 3 months!!!
Moral hazard is not strong enough word for it.
Yes, politicians in Iceland tried to sell us down the river with IceSave deals I and II. Luckily our peacock president did put II and III to referendum.
If UK ad Dutch had accepted IceSave I — we were not asked referendum on that one we would be in almost as bad shape as poor tax payer in Ireland.
As to EU application, now we have polls showing again and again that icelandic taxpayer and voters do quite rightly want this EU application with drawn.
Jóhanna’s cabinet doe continue to pass laws to ” harmonize ” Icelandic regulations this past two years — when we have NOT yet given our consent to join.
This is why the double referendum that was proposed by Independence Party in 2009 was the right way forward. Instead of consent the current Red-Green government just does continue to implement what it has no consent of majoroty of people to do !
At the ballot box or not — it does NOT have the consent of Icelandic voters to do this. It does make my blood boil.
See for example recent poll: http://www.bylgjan.is/lisalib/getfile.aspx?proc=54&itemid=63671 64% want EU application stopped and taken back
>And a triple “Hooray” to the ESA: a model for democracy! The decision of the ESA:
>Whatever people democratically decide: s**t on it.
Democracy should not trample on basic rights, including property rights. All the IceSave II and III referendum did was show that those deals were unpopular with Icelandic tax payer+.
It is not the same as that the obligation does not exist, just because people did vote against those two deals.
If the obligation does exist, the place that it will foudn if that is so, is in the machinery of a court process.
The EFTA Court is a fair enough place for that. They do come to conclusions based on fair due processes and same case law as court of justice of EU.
Both are peer organizations not one on top of the other.
I do however wonder what happen if the EFTA Court makes a decision that EU commission disagrees with — will EU commission just do what it does in other cases and just tell it member states to ignore it ?++ )
+( And yes they were not good deals — but just so you know — on pragmatic ground I was one of those who did vote yes to IceSave III. )
++http://www.icenews.is/index.php/2011/04/01/uk-and-dutch-councils-to-be-priority-claims-on-old-icelandic-banks/#comment-548655
http://www.icenews.is/index.php/2011/02/21/icesave-puts-icelandic-president-in-world-spotlight-once-again/#comment-546161
Bernhard Pangerl- did say
>”Icelandic banks offered a rate of over 5 %, other banks only 3 %
I would be a complete idiot, if now rapacious collect the high interest rates, but may reject the risk.
No risk, no fun :-)”
As has frequently been pointed out in this forum – no guarantee scheme could withstand a systemic collapse. That is why other countries propped up banks to avoid such, and even your modest 3% may have been assured as a consequence of this.
Only 5%! I signed up for 6.10%, and that’s what I got courtesy of Messrs Brown & Darling after Iceland reneged on its guarantees.
Investors accept risks and depositors expect deposit guarantees to be met.
Despite pan clattering, referendums, prevarication etc – reimbursement will happen.
Iceland may wish to ‘save face’ avoiding ESA action before coughing up. And the latest timely release of predicted Landsbanki bankruptcy recovery estimates may be intended for that purpose
http://www.icenews.is/index.php/2011/09/02/26243/
…..who knows – who cares?
The dept will be repaid.
I remember very well. At that time I wanted to place money in a “money at call” account. Icelandic banks offered a rate of over 5 %, other banks only 3 %. But there was information that there would be no adequate security, if the bank gets into trouble. So I accepted 3% interest rate, and waived the risk. That is the law: who wants to have more, get more: Interest rates and risk.
I would be a complete idiot, if now rapacious collect the high interest rates, but may reject the risk.
No risk, no fun :-)
And a triple “Hooray” to the ESA: a model for democracy! The decision of the ESA: Whatever people democratically decide: s**t on it.
Bravo! A good introduction to the EU ;-)
>I suppose they will decide to wait until the LB assets have been sold.
9th September is the 3 month deadline, IIRC. So we’ll know soon enough whether the ESA/UK/NL were all bluster or not.
(Given that we’ve just introduced another law to make our police more afraid of touching anyone after the worst riots in the post war period, I’ll believe anything of my lot.)
“Still wriggling:”
I suppose they will decide to wait until the LB assets have been sold.
There are a few points of interest who are connected to this matter,
For example, the government of Gunnar Thoroddsen took a bullet loan from the Hambros bank in London, who now belongs to Société Générale,
this loan was taken in 1981 and 1983, total of 30 mil GBP, it will be due in 2016.
The minister of health in this govt was Svavar Gestsson, who later headed Icelands Icesave negotiation committee with results that will long be remembered.
This loan could have caused some problems if we had accepted Svavars proposal and then not been able to live up to the agreement.
Things like this crash dont just happen for no reason.
Still wriggling:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-08-31/iceland-is-seeking-to-avoid-icesave-court-case-visir-reports.html
Knowless :
>British imperialism through the eyes of Mike,
>Give me a break from that utter myopic drivel.
Did you read any of Niall Ferguson’s stuff KNowless ? it’s actually enlightening reading.
He gave a quite balanced account Knowless. You don’t seem to be able to swallow anything positive being said about the British it seems. Anyone from the UK is fair game. Sort your head out.
British imperialism through the eyes of Mike,
Give me a break from that utter myopic drivel.
I agree with most of your post Mike, and when i read it i can see in it all the reasons why we have the current system of capital owned politics and as assets to plunder run out the game is kept going by replacing real wealth with fraud, that has also been streched as far as it can go, so as i see it, we have reached the end of the tracks and have only the inevitable crash to look foreward to.
All the western world has benefitted by the industrialation, oil and exploitation related to this, and we are all heading for a very different, much less wasteful and poorer reality as we have run out of people to rob.
Mike UK Nordic analyst wrote :
>It matters not to Brits that some Icelanders decry the British influence on the
>world. For better or worse the ideas and ideals of representative democracy, the
>rule of law and the Enlightenment as understood and espoused by the Brits is
>present throughout a large part of the world.
Axel was making un fair accusations there. Any one that does read Nial Ferguson’s book will see that on balance whatever sins of the British Empire it was the most englightened one that we have known yet.
The USA for example is doing far worse job of managing its defacto Empire since 1945 — which is surprising given that it is basically a 19th centuty constitutiuon based on the same English ideas .
But that is probably because the US Constitution checks and balances is about controlling powers within its jursidction and does not check the foreign relations of the strong executive ( the President does have unlimited powers almost in foreign relations ).
Did you ever watch this from Sean Gabb, Mike?
http://vimeo.com/24525685
Bromley86 says:
June 27, 2011 at 7:08 am
>Sad life both of you guys have.
Still here yourself though, hey Knowless?
Sure, I’m settled in Iceland,
but I completely lack the compulsion to obsessively reply to any related Icesave topics in various English language media outlets around Europe.
The Icesave matter is virtually a done deal, regardless of the legal outcome and the likely worst that can happen for the Iceland state is not a lot different than a likely best legal outcome.
Economic events around Europe have overtaken the Icesave scam, a long time ago.
For all the banking scams in the UK, the UK fraud squad’s pickings are very slim, a few scapegoat prosecutions based on an accused turning state evidence.
The actions of probably the most corrupt bank in Europe, Anglo Irish Bank, make old Landbanki look like altar boys. The directors walk away scot free and financially enumerated. The ECB’s idea of a solution is to impose upon the citizens to bear the 100% burden of insolvent private banking debt.
We are told that UK are contributing to bailing out Ireland, to the tune of £7bn?. In reality all the UK are doing is providing a loan so that the debts to UK banks by the Irish banks can be paid – otherwise there would be a debt default. And that UK loan to the Irish State becomes Irish sovereign debt, in other words, the Irish citizens bear the complete burden.
In contrast to that mess, the Iceland state has stolidly navigated its way out of a morass with some remarkable and unremarkable actions over the past 32months
Good stuff Mike, I enjoyed reading your post and agree with most of the things you’ve said. I’m not sure about racists being in the minority though. The vast majority of people where I live are racist to some degree, there’s no question about that. There are a few people I know of that have changed their views and become nicer people as they’ve matured though. So there is hope…
Bromley,
“It’s a bit difficult to fact check the Esja’s voyage,”
Yes it is, British authorities took the ships log book and never returned it, i read a few newspaper articles about this some time ago and Þór Whitehead wrote a book where this is mentioned, its called “Milli vonar og ótta”
You are right about the time, the journey from Petsamo took 25 days.
Esjan was going directly to Petsamo, 217 Icelanders from Germany and Denmark, sailed with the Belleveue to Stockholm and traveled by land from there to Petsamo,
Esjan ran into 2 German survailence aircraft who flew over her a few times, shortly after that 2 other aircraft came and fired shots in front of the ship and ordered it to stop, a boat came and piloted Esjan trough a minefield into harbor in Trondheim Norway where she was detained by the Germans for 4 days before being allowed to continue to Petsamo. That detour was 400 nm.
Esjan had to go from Petsamo to Kirkwall and then to Reykjavík where she was not allowed to enter the port for some 2 days.
The trip from Finland to Kirkwall was very dangerous, so there is no wonder why people were sceptical about the reasons the British authorities had for demanding the ship would go this route.
http://timarit.is/view_page_init.jsp?pageId=2166421
http://timarit.is/view_page_init.jsp?issId=211202&lang=gl
http://www.mbl.is/mm/gagnasafn/grein.html?grein_id=644427
Axel writes:
“Lets face it, Britain, had been mass murdering people all over the planet, commiting countless genocides for centuries”
Without denying the economic exploitation and political subjugation inherent in any empire, the British Empire was never based upon a process of state sponsored genocide or organised ethnic cleansing. To be sure there were incidents of murder but these were carried out by groups of people acting outwith the bounds, and boundaries, of the state – and local people were killed for their land, that did happen, but it wasn’t government policy. There were also wars and conflicts where many were killed on both sides. Equally, while slavery was present early on it was soon banned and the Royal Navy worked hard throughout the nineteenth century to stamp out the trade in slaves.
The British Empire was one based upon the development of business opportunities – e.g. the Hudson Bay Company, the East India Company etc – which developed independently of the British state. Those companies were more often than not welcomed by local authorities. They brought trade and economic development. Equally, British people began to emigrate overseas – with the intention of staying where they went. (French and Spanish colonists always had the intention of making money and then returning to their home countries.) The British state – reluctantly – became involved in protecting British citizens and thereby developed military and political control. The very idea of “Imperial” Britain, the idea that there was an empire at all, only developed towards the end of the nineteenth century. By that time the spread of British liberal ideals was firmly planted throughout a large part of the globe – all without any “master plan” for domination. It was almost “an accident.” From its peak in 1900, the British state then began to cede control to its constituent parts – Canada, Australia, New Zealand all being allowed to develop in their own ways: from colonies they became dominions. Areas in Africa, Asia (especially India and Pakistan) and the West Indies adopted British systems of education, social development, and governance often with little or no prompting from London. The “social contract” of the Second World War was simple – if the colonies and dominions felt able to support the British war effort then those colonies and dominions would be handed their freedom. This largely happened, starting with India and Pakistan in 1947. The British Empire was dismantled as peacefully as possible and without rancour by the British themselves. By 1965 it was largely all over.
It was as if the empire had been created solely to sacrifice itself while destroying a monstrous evil. (Cue the final scenes of The King’s Speech!)
And what happened after those countries rightfully achieved their independence? Far from bemoaning the fact that they were once colonies nearly all of those independent states chose to join a Commonwealth of countries which share the common heritage of the British Empire. That Commonwealth is more symbol than political but it is a powerful symbol that the countries that once made up the empire feel a strong affinity with Britain and each other. They harbour no grudges. Indeed, some countries maintain the Queen as Head of State (e.g. Canada and Australia). When I visit Canada I always find it comforting but odd that the queen’s head is on the coins. Whether those countries wish to maintain the Queen as head of state is a debate solely for themselves – a British ideal!
Bizarrely, many many foreigners attend or watch The Last Night of the Proms. It’s probably the most jingoistic expression of nationalism you get in Britain which on any analytical level should be repellant to anyone who isn’t British, yet the foreigners identify with the ideals very closely – and they are welcomed! Watch this and look at the different flags German, Dutch, US, Norwegian, Irish tricolours and so forth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zt1W9itM2EY&feature=related
More powerfully, the legal systems in most Commonwealth countries are based on common law – a law which appears to be alien to most Icelanders, who appear to value only the written statute law (most English and Commonwealth law is common law – it is not the result of Acts of Parliament). The US, although long independent, maintains its English common law basis. Finally, many of the smaller independent countries of the Commonwealth still use the Privy Council in London as the ultimate court of appeal. They clearly value the skill and independence of the British judiciary.
I don’t wish to sound like an apologist for the British Empire – there were certainly lots of things wrong with it and all was not sweetness and light – but when I travel to Nigeria, Pakistan, Malaysia, Hong Kong, Canada, Australia and so on I feel very comfortable – the people I meet, even the ones with whom I have major disagreements, are grounded in the same soil. (I was recently in Hong Kong and the behaviour of the HK police is modelled exactly on that of the “English bobbie”. Idealised? Sure, but true nevertheless. Even Communist China recognises the value of keeping Hong Kong in its British colony mode of operation.)
Equally I celebrate the fact that people from all over the world can come to London and feel equally comfortable. Just to give one example – I have recently employed a young Indian man who had never been outside India before he arrived in London. Beforehand he was terrified but upon arrival he said he was instantly reassured. At the trivial end of things there were “Indian” restaurants (mostly run by Bangladeshis in fact). More significantly, he was amused to compare his Indian grammar school education with public school education in the UK (public schools confusingly for outsiders are in fact the independent schools such as Eton and Harrow). His grounding in Latin and the liberal arts was exactly the same as those in the UK. He feels totally comfortable talking to well educated Brits – “It’s as if we went to the same school!” He has indeed faced racism in the UK but he knows that white people who voice racism in the UK are frowned upon and are in a minority. (“There are bad people everywhere” is his philosophical take on it.) His religion and different cultural upbringing is either not an issue – how can it be when the Brits controlled so many different areas of the world? – or in some cases celebrated. (One of our company’s annual celebrations is Diwali.)
Also as you eat plentiful food, travel around in car, or open a fridge to get a beer, it’s probably just as well to remember that the only reason you can do that is because Britain underwent first an agricultural revolution and then an industrial revolution, two events that showed the world how to feed itself and supply cheap high quality manufactured products. The grimness of the industrial revolution cannot be denied but I doubt the living standards common throughout the world today – including Iceland – would be rejected by most of those who enjoy them. Poverty and hunger are not things to be desired.
Finally, look at sport. What you see throughout the world is a British model of sport: codified rules, leagues, knock-out competitions, the celebration of commitment, physical excellence etc are all British exports. The greatest being football. There is nowhere on this planet I cannot go without knowing that football is a safe topic of conversation, a point of contact with almost every human being (whether they love it or hate it). And what are we talking about? A British cultural export.
It matters not to Brits that some Icelanders decry the British influence on the world. For better or worse the ideas and ideals of representative democracy, the rule of law and the Enlightenment as understood and espoused by the Brits is present throughout a large part of the world.
If you want a balanced view get yourself a copy of:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Empire-Britain-Made-Modern-World/dp/0141007540
Now I do believe I can hear the opening bars of “God Save the Queen” so if you could all be upstanding …
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUTeRGigUjU&feature=related
:-)
It’s a bit difficult to fact check the Esja’s voyage, but it looks like you’ve got a number of them wrong Axel.
Going by Wiki (as I can’t translate the source docs), it seems that the vessel went to Copenhagen, picked up people, dropped them in Malmo and then went all the way around Norway and Finland whilst the passengers trained it up to Petsamo . A very odd route, to be sure, but one that would more likely be explained by concern for the passengers being accidentally killed in the North Sea. Otherwise why empty the ship?
The ship was not detained for 3 weeks (the whole journey only took 25 days) and it probably was not forced to sail out from Reykjavik but was rather diverted enroute.
http://is.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petsamof%C3%B6rin
Still, this guy speculates that the motive might have been to get the (empty) ship sunk by the Germans for the propaganda value.
http://marinomm.blog.is/blog/marinomm/entry/338593/
Andy said,
“so why on earth would they do something as horrible as what you’ve suggested?”
Its just politics, politicians do horrible things every day.
The next war is probably not far away, it would not surprize me if Obama (Wallstreet) goes to war against Iran shortly after securing 4 more years in office.
>Sad life both of you guys have.
Still here yourself though, hey Knowless?
Terry says: June 21, 2011 at 9:28 am
Ah Bromley. We have been doing the same thing : )
http://www.theraceison.co.uk/blog/index.php/2011/04/13/the-iceland-debt-crisis-spare-a-thought-for-the-icelanders/#comment-431
Sad life both of you guys have.
Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, tag Icesave.
Yes Axel and the Dutch, Portuguese, Danish, French, Spanish, Belgians…they were doing the same thing. We’ve done a hell of a lot of good too and given a lot to the modern world in many many areas. I must add that the comments you made were very cynical indeed, insulting actually. Britain’s aim was to stop the inhumanity going on in Germany and Poland, so why on earth would they do something as horrible as what you’ve suggested? I’m very proud of what my nation did during the war, and you should respect it too!
““But Gummi!” whine an envious few, “What about those Icelanders who fought with Hitler, betrayed the Norwegian Resistance, committed unspeakable atrocities against Polish and Ukrainian Jews,”
You are talking about 600 jews in Ternopol and 2-3000 jews in Zloczow.
Björn Sv. Björnsson joined the SS in September 1941, one and a half month after this happened, and Sölvi did not go to the Eastern front until late in the war,
so you seem to be misinformed.
I suppose you could find some 10 or 12 icelanders who worked for the 3rd reich or fought with German forces, but far more icelanders fought against it with US, Canadian, British and Norwegian forces.
Iceland had alot of influence on the war, as one can see by looking at the ship and plane wrecks all over and around Iceland.
Iceland managed to make a agreement with Britain and Germany to allow Icelandic citizens to return to Iceland after Britain had occupied Iceland and Germany invaded Denmark and Norway,
it was agreed with both nations that Iceland would send a ship to N-Finland, a place called Petsamo, that ship would sail North of Norway and North of Iceland between Iceland and Greenland and straight to Reykjavík.
A ship called Esjan was sent to pick up a large number of people who had traveled to Petsamo and when she set course to Iceland the British broke the agreement and ordered the captain to sail past occupied Norway to Edinburg because they wanted to interrogate the passangers, when the ship made it to Edinburg there was no one there to do this, Esjan stayed there for 3 weeks and then sailed to Reykjavik, when she showed up in Reykjavík the British war office was fuorios and decided after some consideration to send Esjan back to Britain.
The Icelandic government put a stop to that.
One might ask one self, why the british decided to send a passanger ship full of Icelanders past occupied Norway, where they were at great risk, the Germans were not bound to the agreement anymore because the British had broken it and could shoot Esjan down if they wanted to,
why did they want to send the ship back to Britain, why could the passangers not be interrogated in Reykjavik.
Most people believe the British were hoping that the Esja would be shot down, as there was a good chance she would,
the reason would be that they could use this in the propaganda war against Germany.
Lets face it, Britain, had been mass murdering people all over the planet, commiting countless genocides for centuries,
not much better than the Germans.
“The lesson here is: Don’t allow foreign bankers to hijack your banking system”
The bankers in Iceland were all Icelandic
>The lesson here is . . .
No, the lesson here is don’t consistently vote for corrupt politicians who gift national banks to their buddies rather than allowing in those foreign bankers.
You’re right about heavy regulation.
The lesson here is: Don’t allow foreign bankers to hijack your banking system – they must be watched constantly, and heavily regulated, or your country will suffer (while the foreign bankers go on a nice vacation, somewhere expensive)
Ah Bromley. We have been doing the same thing : )
http://www.theraceison.co.uk/blog/index.php/2011/04/13/the-iceland-debt-crisis-spare-a-thought-for-the-icelanders/#comment-431
I see he also appears to post on ‘The Scotsman’ (Guinness record holder of moderator removed comment) – the natural poster refuge for trolls, racists, sectarians, bigots, xenophobes etc
>>>As I do keep on mentioning, politicans be damned but judges in Iceland will come out on side of what is fair and equitible.
Yes! Well said Cousin Fisy! I agree 100,000% with your brutally honest inference that Iceland is (…I do paraphrase) like a crackhead who broke into your house, stuffed your silver down his pants, passed out on the floor, then woke as cops Tasered his buttocks with 10,000 volts of attitude adjustment.
To re-word your highly reasoned conjecture: We robbed others blind. Displaying zero remorse, we now define ourselves the victims, call our victims bullies, and demand low-interest loans from same. Like delusional psychotics (I do wax poetic) we sprawl unconscious across the cold Linoleum of Regret as EU cops batter down the ICESAVE door and pepper-spray our noble (if Recumbent) features with the bitter jalapeños of justice (oh the pain), thus interrupting our vivid (but lamentably brief!) hallucination of Wealth, Eminence, and most Grandiose glory!
…How unspeakably sad.
But I, Gummi, discern a silver lining behind this dark cloud! Having voted our foremost idiots into office, and having acted as fawning lickspittles to the congenital imbeciles we once called ‘bankers’, Icelandic voters do qualify for EU disability pensions (as mandated by their generous Constitution) “…for the welfare of recklessly inbred cretins.”
I do strongly recommend we join, (today if possible0, before they come to their senses.
Gummi
Dear All,
I’m not very good at this interweblogmybookface thingy thing object but I think I’ve just spotted my first real live troll. And no, he isn’t the troll that lived under the old hotdog-gas station at Brú in Hrútafjördur (recall he had to leave when they knocked the place down and replaced it by a sterile tourist-friendly new Stadarskáli on the same spot – and they charge for Fréttablaðið!).
This troll is the new type who posts provocative garbage hoping to get a repsonse. So please step forward the Shrek of Icenews: Steve Berker!
Berker by name, Berk by nature ;)
>>It’s even more morally reprehensible for Britain to demand payment from the country they invaded and put at risk of Nazi occupation…Iceland is still a country which has harmed no one…
So says Foreigner Berserk!
“But Gummi!” whine an envious few, “What about those Icelanders who fought with Hitler, betrayed the Norwegian Resistance, committed unspeakable atrocities against Polish and Ukrainian Jews, returned to Iceland after the war to live happily ever after, protected by the Icelandic government from prosecution for their unspeakable crimes?”
…Eh?
“If not for British occupation, how many more Icelanders would have joined the Germans? Danish newspaper Berlingske Tidende on Icelanders’ role in Nazi attrocitites on the eastern battlefront in Russia during 1941…It is now confirmed they were members of the Waffen SS Viking in 1941…”
“…These Icelanders are named in the book, “Hitlers Hemmelige Agenter,” written by Norwegian historian Tore Pryser and published by Universitetsforlaginu in 2001. The book is undertitled, “The German Spy Service in Norway, 1939-1945.” It confirms that Icelanders worked for the Nazi German spy agency “Meldekopf Suzanne” in Þrándheimi until the end of the war.”
Really?
“Berlingske Tidende has also detailed a new book from German historian Hannes Heer, in which he solidly concludes that the Old Norse stormtrooper unit, Waffen SS Viking, had murdered approximately 600 Jews in the city of Ternopol in the Ukraine and all of 3,000 Jews in Zloczow in 1941. Heer is controversial in his homeland but Danish experts say his information is credible….There were many in the Waffen SS Viking, very young and strongly endorsing the Nazi ideology, having proven themselves through their rough and merciless techniques and various crimes.”
But Foreigner Berserk says…?!?
“… confirmation of the Waffen SS having done many horrors in Zloczow; to begin with, having used axes, broadswords, hand grenades and rifles to take the lives of Jews. It was not until the 295th infantry unit of footsoldiers came onto the scene was the bloodbath stopped, when its superior found enough about the progress of the Waffen-unit. Heer cites, among other things, telegrams from the Fourth Infantry to German Command on July 3, 1941 saying Waffen SS Viking left their campgrounds and refused to co-operate with other divisions. “In the meanwhile some from the unit are off hunting for Jews,” as it says in the telegram.”
What’s a telegram?
“It has become know in the Icelandic mass media that Björn Sv. Björnsson and Sölvi K. Friðriksson were members of the Waffen SS. Sölvi was actually one of both Totenkopf or Hauskúpusveitum SS and worked as, among other duties, a warden in the notorious Neuengamme concentration camp, where torture and murder was their daily bread…”
Well.
Odd that Foreigner Berserker is unaware of these things.
Puzzled,
Gummi
“Steve Berker says:”
What is it about Iceland that brings out the Nutters.
>You know Bromley, it’s Brits like you who give the country a bad name.
It would seem the art of debate is not dead! First you make stuff up, then you move straight to attacking the person. Sweet.
Anyway, good to see your tenuous grip on facts then continues.
You know Bromley, it’s Brits like you who give the country a bad name. And will guarantee you won’t see a dime … just whale meat.
It’s even more morally reprehensible for Britain to demand paymment from the country they invaded and put at risk of Nazi occupation – just like happened to the Norwegians, and the Danes.
They “volunteered” to the Americans, who should have protected them, as required by treaty with FDR.
Iceland is still a country which has harmed no one, just been fleeced by the City of London – regardless of which meaningless flapjaw party happened to be empowered by the Queen.
Beyond which, it’s Britain that’s genuinely bankrupt, since about 1915 and has gotten away with not paying for any of the “damages” from the so-called Pax Britannica, and losing both World Wars but for American intevention (you know the saying Bromley “the smallest fraking province in the Soviet Emipire – or German, take your pick.)
Fraakly, with the degree of anti-British feeling around the world it’s a wonder Iceland doesn’t have scores of allies. You’d think Argentina would give a listen. They certainly know the Brits never pay up.
>>It is morally reprehensible for the British Government to inist on repayment of monies from people to whom they owe their very lives, and otherwise bother no one.
Yes!! I share your anger foreigner Berserk!! Damn the English. We won WWII for them and how do they thank us? By demanding we pay our debts!! Well it’ll never happen!! We are icelanders. We never pay and otherwise bother no one. On to deeper subjects.
To ‘anonymous’ – Forget your ICESAVE money. It’s gone. Yes, gone for good. Poof, vanished. Our best conjecture is that some trans-dimensional vortex (or space-time continuum) sucked your savings into another reality (or perhaps to offshore accounts). Are you confused? Yes. Of course you are, this is highly complex Quantum Mathematics. We don’t expect you to grasp it all at once. It may take a few years, past the statute of limitations.
In any case, our best educated guess puts your euros either in the Pleiades or somewhere in the Caribbean. The two are similar. Either way you’ll never see it again. The best we can do is take up a collection of homespun woolens to keep you warm in that shipping container you now call ‘home’. Gather round lads. Cousin Fisy? Donations please. Uncle Bjarni? How about your elegant hand-knitted thong?? You know, the one with the snowflakes. Frankly, it never flattered your figure, just frightened dogs and infants. There, well, someone had to say it. Give it up. Foreigner Berserker? Come on lads, step up to the plate before ‘anon’ dies of exposure, there’s a generous nation. Lets prove we are a giving people before they catch on!
Gummi
The KSFIOM parental guarantee judgment, in English. Just in case anyone is having trouble sleeping.
http://www.kaupthingsingers.co.im/Files/IOM/20110615/KSFIOM_Supreme_Court_Judgment.pdf
>It is morally reprehensible for the British Government to inist on repayment of monies from people to whom they owe their very lives, and otherwise bother no one.
You’ll forgive me if I don’t read the rest, as this first point is factually incorrect. We had to invade them first :P .
Okay, I read further. As Axel says, it was Denmark not Norway.
I think you meant “The Labour government”. That’s 3 strikes, you’re outta here!
“Icelanders, in 1940 formally Norwegian citizens, allowed the constuction of Keflavik Airbase to support anti-submarine operations, at a very real risk of a brutal Nazi reprisal invasion, without which Britain starves and dies right there and then.”
They didn’t really allow anything, the British invaded, if the Germans invaded they would have allowed they to build an airbase in the same way that the French, Dutch, Polish etc ‘allowed’ them to occupy their country.
Maybe Icelanders supported the Allies more than the Axis, but so what? The UK spent 60 years repaying the war debt to the USA, they did not forgive the debt built up fighting the war on their behalf.
UK citizen really suffered into the 1950′s with rationing repaying this debt, eventually repaying it a few years ago.
>The Tory Government inexpicably became peeved with Iceland to the point of declaring her a “terrorist Nation.”
As much as Gordon Brown and New Labour could be labelled right wing ( in the worst way of against UK ideas of liberty ) they are not the Conservative Party ( Tories ).
Since this Cameron and Clegg got in there in UK things did get more reasonable, despite the same negotiatior team of civil servants on IceSave the whole time ( well on the Uk side our incompetent idiots were luckily replaced by the good Lee Buichet. )
It seems to have been since Bjarni Benediktsson leader of Icelandic Idependence Party ( currently not in government ) did go over and meet with Cameron in October 2010+ .
In fair ness to our Steingrímur J he did stand up to IMF to get the loans agsinst wishes of EU memb state blocking it including Germany — but any recover we have here is depsite he and Jóhanna Sigurðardóttir being in government seats in Iceland since election April 2009.
+http://www.icenews.is/index.php/2010/12/06/icesave-draft-details-come-to-light/
“Icelanders, in 1940 formally Norwegian citizens”
Iceland was a country without a King for almost 400 years, all desicions and laws were made at Thingvellir by the parliament, This was a very unusual experiment, probably not well seen by the elite in Europe.
in 1262 the Norwegian King Hakon took over and later the King of Denmark, we ended the Danish rule of Iceland when Denmark became German territory during the war.
There were not only the British and US defending the convoys, there was also a Norwegian Northrop sea plane squadron, they came from Norway after it fell and continued fighing here.
Only one of those planes still exists, it crashed into a river in Iceland and sank into the sand in the bottom, it was restored by Nortrop and is in a museum in Norway, the rest crashed or went missing, one was recently found in Skerjafjordur.
http://postskipid.wordpress.com/2011/03/16/northrop-sjoflugvel-fridlysing/
The Germans had a plan to invade Iceland, but somehow it fell apart, it was called project Ikarus
It is morally reprehensible for the British Government to inist on repayment of monies from people to whom they owe their very lives, and otherwise bother no one.
Icelanders, in 1940 formally Norwegian citizens, allowed the constuction of Keflavik Airbase to support anti-submarine operations, at a very real risk of a brutal Nazi reprisal invasion, without which Britain starves and dies right there and then.
Beyond that, close reading of the Althingi report on the crisis leaves two glaring impressions. One, no one in the Icelandic Government was formally responsible for, or even understood the concept of, managing the currency. Two, the UK offered to cover for Iceland´s risk exposure, in full at no cost to Iceland, prior to the collapse.
The Tory Government inexpicably became peeved with Iceland to the point of declaring her a “terrorist Nation.” Very nearly an Act of War, against a current ally and strong business partner.
Doubtful Britain would have resorted to such a tactic against, say, an actual terrorist nation with which the City of London enjoys a profitable relationship.
Which begs the question: If you see your neighbor and ally headed for trouble, do you withdraw you offer of support out of pique and greed, or do you recognise that the failure to head off the crisis lay entirely with the British Government which understood the problem, not with he Icelandic one which did not?
If they continue to insist, offer to pay in whale meat. The Greens would probably feel it´s worth 5 billion to save just one whale. Problem solved!
“As I do keep on mentioning, politicans be damned but judges in Iceland will come out on side of what is fair and equitible.”
That will go some way to improving Iceland’s reputation.
Unfortunately Iceland has insured itself against my dastardly plan, which was to sign and return Icesave I if the UK lost the case :’( .
http://www.dv.is/frettir/2011/6/13/fyrstu-icesave-login-felld/
As I do keep on mentioning, politicans be damned but judges in Iceland will come out on side of what is fair and equitible.
” Posted: Fri, 10/06/2011 – 20:36
We have been informed by our Icelandic lawyers that the appeal in relation to the parental guarantee has been won by KSFIOM. The Supreme Court of Iceland has ruled that the guarantee signed by the Icelandic CEO on behalf of Kaupthing hf was valid and binding on the bank. KSFIOM’s claim was acknowledged pursuant to its claims before the Supreme Court, under Article 113 of the Bankruptcy Act.
The judgment was handed down today, 10 June 2011, and is posted (in Icelandic) on the Court website here: http://www.haestirettur.is/domar?nr=7446
The decision of the Supreme Court is final. “
BTW Anon, the site that Peter mentions is here:
http://chat.ksfiomdepositors.org/
Although this probably doesn’t directly affect you (well, other than making the pot available to bondholders smaller), there’s been some recent movement on the parental guarantee from Kaupthing to KSFIOM that you might be interested in:
http://chat.ksfiomdepositors.org/forum-topic/pg-claim-won-ksfiom
>You want to stop my democartic right to air my views? . . . If you cannot handle the debate at hand, go somewhere else.
You are mistaken in believing that the internet is a democracy. That said, are you trying to stop me exercising my “democratic right” to point out that you do not debate, but merely rant?
It seems odd to me that you can’t sue your bank now, but I’ve only a vague idea of your situation. I will be interested to hear what happens when you do start to do something about it in Portugal or Iceland.
“You want to stop my democartic right to air my views?”
No, just as we have the democratic right to tell you to shut up unless you have something interesting to say. Its boring.
“Is there any better bloggs than this one for the Icelandic banking disaster? any organised legal movements in Europe to fight this type of fraud in a legal way?”
There were webs sites for Guernsey, Isle of Mann and Jersey depositors, but they were paid out by the respective governments or out of the estates of the banks. Don’t know if any are still going. Bond holders like yourself are usually considered sophisticated investors who take professional advice. You don’t seem to be either,or if you were advised, sue the professionals who advised you to put your money into Iceland. There must be other people like you in a similar position in your country. Use google.
To Peter and Bromley86,
You want to stop my democartic right to air my views?
Where are you from? from the stone age perhaps? :-)
If you cannot handle the debate at hand, go somewhere else.
Or close your eyes, do not read my articles :-)
When someone steals hard earned money from me and my family in the way it was done, you want me to stop?
If you are scared buy a dog :-)
Early next year I will go to my bank and extract a statement of my investments, when they cannot pay, I will appoint a lawyer to start the legal process against my bank in Portugal.
Early next year is when my “Guaranteed bond” with Kaupthing was supposed to expire/mature. The last of the toxic “Guaranteed bonds”.
Is there any better bloggs than this one for the Icelandic banking disaster? any organised legal movements in Europe to fight this type of fraud in a legal way?
To Iceland with love :-)
To Bromley86,
The payments from Landsbanki estate have of course no real effect on whether the state guarantee is required, at least not in the legal sense. This question will be determined by the EFTA Court and the Icelandic Supreme Court, based on how they interpret legally the EC Directive and the Icelandic laws that apply, respectively.
But, while these cases are winding their way through the courts, for the next few years, the Landsbanki estate will likely proceed to pay out the bulk of the deposit guarantee amounts back to the UK/NL governments as priority claimants. So those payments will have the practical effect of leaving the courts to decide only the potential damages and interest, should Iceland end up loosing their case.
If on the other hand Iceland wins their case, there will of course be no damages and/or interest payments required. The Landsbanki estate payments will then be the only ones that the UK/NL governments will receive. So in the end, those payments can therefore end up mattering quite a lot for the UK/NL.
“I’m all for a bit of Iceland-bashing (j/k), his inability to do anything other than tell Icelanders that they’re thieving b**tards is getting annoying.”
Agreed, but it would require a login of some sort. Alternatively Anon1 could expand his insults a little more, the Vanity fair article is great start that I’m sure he would appreciate. Alas, its not available online in its entirety anymore.
http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2009/04/iceland200904
At least he can can expand his vocabulary beyond thieves, to stupid, naive and hubristic etc. and make it a little less boring.
>Actually isn’t the estate of Landsbanki the property of the creditors, including the bond holders? So the Icelandic government has to pay up and it will be repaid a %age of its debt from the estate, like other creditors.
That’s been the worst element of the recent Icelandic spin on whether or not the state guarantee is required. As if the payment of 100% of the amount by a third party at some time in the future somehow affects the question of whether or not Iceland was liable in the past.
As an aside, would it be possible to block Anon’s posts? Hard to do, I know, if he’s determined. Still, whilst I’m all for a bit of Iceland-bashing (j/k), his inability to do anything other than tell Icelanders that they’re thieving bastards is getting annoying.
Actually isn’t the estate of Landsbanki the property of the creditors, including the bond holders? So the Icelandic government has to pay up and it will be repaid a %age of its debt from the estate, like other creditors.
Iceland government can then reclaim the outstanding debt form the countries financial industry in the form of a levy. This is how other countries do it.
Clearly no one should do business in Iceland.
The politicians sound like a bunch of thieves looking for all the ways of stealing money from everyone.
Guess what? there is only so much to steal, also the sign of the begining of the end. You can only steal so much and then people isolate you.
What happened to INTEGRITY? does it exist in the Icelandic dictionary?
Look it up, without INTEGRITY in finance your business will come to an end.
To Iceland with love :-)