Despite some claims to the contrary, there has not yet been any new deal agreed in the ongoing Icesave dispute between Iceland, the Netherlands and the United Kingdom. The talks are, however, said to be going very well.
It was reported yesterday evening that a new draft of a deal had been agreed to the satisfaction of all sides; but RUV reports that is not yet true. There is good progress though and a draft has been presented to interested parties for consideration before the three sides agree on amendments or to send it to their national governments.
According to Icelandic finance ministry spokesman Rosa Bjork Brynjolfsdottir, there is a good atmosphere at the negotiating table and excellent communication between the three sides.
Icelandic Minister of Finance Steingrimur J. Sigfusson is currently in Brussels working with the country’s EU accession committee. He would not be drawn to comment publicly on the current state of Icesave negotiations. Sources within the ministry hope that Icesave can be completely put to bed in the coming few weeks.
According to the Confederation of Icelandic Employers, an NGO which has received a copy of the new draft agreement, the deal currently on the table will see the Icelandic state burdened with a much smaller bill than previously feared – likely around ISK 60 billion (USD 530.7 million). The likely interest rate on the trilateral loan is said to be in the region of three percent, with a nine-month interest free payment break.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trmPJxk5954
Iceland lost its sovereign position and land more or less. Ireland does not have the same energy value as Iceland therefore in my opinion , the mosquitoes dont fancy Irish or some European blood with the same appetite.
“The Irish could have done with some Iceland negotiating stubbornness even when negotiating the terms of how long the Irish can survive on economic death row.”
LOL, good one. Iceland as an example of how to destroy your currency and credibility. Well, Iceland havn’t negotiated anything with Icesave, refusing to deal is not negotiation. Bondholders can harrassle Iceland for years to come like they did with Argentina, its problems are very far from finished. Incidentally, Wikileaks will be publishing confidential assessments of iceland (and many other countries) on Sunday. Should be interesting to hear what the US really thinks.
In fact that Irish debt is not being repaid in full their debt may well be written down between 10 and 80%. The negotiations are still ongoing, so you are jumping to conclusions. The UK and Scandinavian loans to Ireland were below 5%, so I find it highly unlikely Ireland will be given a debt burden and interest rate that it cannot repay.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/robertpeston/2010/11/what_losses_for_lenders_to_iri.html
The Irish could have done with some Iceland negotiating stubbornness even when negotiating the terms of how long the Irish can survive on economic death row. In regard to their sovereign debt interest rates, it is rumoured that they have signed a deal accepting interest rates of 6.7%.
I don’t know what level of maths is taught in the EU zone but how do the ECB reckon this formula works?
Tax revenues €32bn. Sovereign debt now approx €210bn plus some €130bn has been provided by the ECB to keep the Irish banks from sinking. This €130bn is also sovereign debt. The interest rates alone will swallow up half the tax revenue.
Some snips from an Irish Times opinion piece today
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2010/1127/1224284258368.html
‘Irish citizens are bearing the burden of debts run up by wheeler-dealers seeking their own profit’…….
‘These debts were incurred, not to pay for public programmes, but by private wheeler-dealers seeking nothing but their own profit. Ordinary Irish citizens are now bearing the burden of those debts.’
‘Or to be more accurate, they’re bearing a burden much larger than the debt – because those spending cuts have caused a severe recession so that in addition to taking on the banks’ debts, the Irish are suffering from plunging incomes and high unemployment’……
‘No matter how bad the Irish situation, it couldn’t be compared with the disaster that was Iceland.
At this point, however, Iceland seems, if anything, to be doing better than its near-namesake. Its economic slump was no deeper than Ireland’s, its job losses were less severe and it seems better positioned for recovery. In fact, investors now appear to consider Iceland’s debt safer than Ireland. How is that possible?
Part of the answer is that Iceland let foreign lenders to its runaway banks pay the price of their poor judgment rather than putting its own taxpayers on the line to guarantee bad private debts. Meanwhile, Iceland helped avoid a financial panic in part by imposing temporary capital controls – that is, by limiting the ability of residents to pull funds out of the country.’
I would add, obviously the IMF facility and kicking out the old government. But one cannot stress enough that the term “national interest” was already understood in Iceland to have a greater slant towards the well being of it’s citizens, while at all times in Ireland the government interpreted the “national interest”
held as it’s priority, the well being of the wheeler dealers above the welfare of the citizens.
Bromley86 says:
“I thought the Irish government was responsible for their actions? You may well be right that they made a poor call, but they made it.”
And Greece and next Portugal. Probably similar actions in the UK, funded by increasing the national sovereign debt and printing more money.
The EU has not accepted that a member country’s reckless banking system can default/negotiate on bondholder debt. There are some croc tears shed, but in reality it appears that the EU have the most reckless Euro zone member countries by the goolies.
“Iceland is not a pariah state Peter, it didnt turn into N-Korea or Cuba as predicted by silly people, the same applies to Ireland,”
Its not far from N-Korea though is it? Who would be crazy enough to invest in a country where you can’t repatriate you money. Is any any international investors buying Icelandic bands – I don’t think so. The only organisations buying government bonds are Icelandic, mainly state owned banks. Exporters are forced to effectively give half their income over to the government via a 50% currency tax. Do you still have to get permission to convert your money tokens into real money when travelling abroad? Iceland has a junk rating, all those things put together make it a pariah state.
None of that applies to Ireland, BTW. Its bonds are still investment grade, their government and companies can still borrow and they have a solid convertible currency.
Iceland, N.Korea and Cuba all have the same controls in place and if you don’t realise that they maybe they have the same brainwashing media control in Iceland as well as those two countries.
>The EU follows a scorched earth policy. They scorch the citizens and the poorest, in order to protect the loan risk of bondholders.
I thought the Irish government was responsible for their actions? You may well be right that they made a poor call, but they made it.
>Far from being a pariah, the Iceland State approach to Bank collapse is regarded a silver to gold standard of approaches.
Well, they didn’t have a choice – there was simply no chance of taking a punt on holding it all together. Not that stopped them burning a lot of money trying to. So it was hardly a testament to their better judgment.
I’m not sure whether saving a couple of percent interest was worth the delays to the IMF loans, bad press and the junk rating, but maybe it was. Only time will tell.
The EU follows a scorched earth policy. They scorch the citizens and the poorest, in order to protect the loan risk of bondholders.
It is a policy doomed.
The tax revenues in Ireland are dropping like a stone.
The current annual tax revenue is ca €32bn
The annual interest on newly created sovereign debt is €12bn
In EU speak, that appears to make common sense. The interest and that debt is set to rise but no one can quantify yet by how much.
Far from being a pariah, the Iceland State approach to Bank collapse is regarded a silver to gold standard of approaches.
The Irish Finance minister on RTE (state tv) Sept 30 2010 said ‘if we default on bondholder debt we will end up worse than Iceland’.
A comment which inspired the University economy professors in TCD & UCD, to argue that Ireland was already worse than Iceland and that if only Ireland had followed the Iceland approach, the Irish would already be crawling out of the hole, instead of stuck at the bottom – digging it deeper.
Indeed the retort from the University professors was well discussed in the Irish media and TV current affairs in the days after and after much scrutiny their commentary became recognised as established fact.
Iceland is not a pariah state Peter, it didnt turn into N-Korea or Cuba as predicted by silly people, the same applies to Ireland,
the only way to avoid ruining Ireland is to go bankrupt,
kill the banks, walk trought the sh*tstorm that follows, and rebuild.
Jim Rogers about Ireland
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tk2IFsUtJc
This is how a normal finacial system works.
Well, like I say, we will know whether it was a good idea in 10-20 years time.
I suspect you want to believe that what Iceland did was the only option and anything else was madness as it may highlight how Iceland’s refusal to join the EU was a catastrophic mistake that left it with no friends when it really needed them.
Making your currency worthless and converting the country into a pariah state seems an strange definition of the sane option.
Peter – London/Krakow says:
November 22, 2010 at 5:38 pm
Ireland hasn’t give a blanket guarantee, some bonds are getting an 80% haircut.”
Yes indeed, some subordinated debt bonds have been discounted. The exception to the blanket guarantee. Most of the subordinated debt – which is about 3% of the total bondholder debt covered by the blanket Government guarantee, remains under that guarantee.
“Which is why the ECB demanded that Ireland be bailed out.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/72756b66-f66e-11df-846a-00144feab49a.html
Who/what is insane?”
Insane? ECB of course, neglected to follow due diligence, along with the the Irish banks.
That is a proven point.
The loans from the ECB are just one (minor) part of the equation. Banks in the UK, France and Germany are more heavily exposed to Ireland, than the ECB.
But mostly insane, the Irish Gov for transforming risktaker bondholder debt into sovereign debt.
A gross mismanagement of the Bank crisis.
The EU are not bailing out Ireland, the Irish State is being asked to bailout the Euro.
Many Irish economy commentators have pointed to how the Iceland State has competently dealt with its collapsed banking system (Yes Peter, the Iceland banks did collapse beyond repair, they were not saved) as a model for how Ireland should have proceeded right from the beginning in Sept 2008. Bondholder debt is not sovereign debt, nor should it ever be.
“Have you just discovered that the worlds banks have been through the greatest expansion of credit in history. Ireland had 700% of its GDP in borrowing, Iceland had over 1000% of its GDP in borrowing. The UK has 450%. Icelands economy was a hedge fund and yes its all insane.”
The crucial difference lies in the response to the crisis as it stood in Sept 2008.
Also you are confusing external debt with national debt when you refer to Iceland’s current condition.
Ireland has transformed a large chunk of external debt into national debt.
Right now, before any more loans are taken, the National Debt of Ireland is about €150-160bn, http://www.cso.ie/releasespublications/documents/economy/current/externaldebt.pdf
(a rise from just €25bn a year or two before the crisis).
Most likely this figure will rise to €250bn. The Irish economic crisis is reckoned to be 3 times more severe than Greece.
The response to the crisis in Ireland by the Irish Government has placed a huge burden on the State, far eclipsing Iceland. Iceland had a better understanding of the “national Interest”. Ireland interpreted acting in the “national interest” as mortgaging the State to save the Banks and their risktaker bondholders.
“Ireland has 1.2% ? of the GDP in the Eurozone.
Of all the money lent by the ECB in the Eurozone €516bn, some 31% or €165bn has been lent to Irish banks.”
Which is why the ECB demanded that Ireland be bailed out.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/72756b66-f66e-11df-846a-00144feab49a.html
Who/what is insane?
Have you just discovered that the worlds banks have been through the greatest expansion of credit in history. Ireland had 700% of its GDP in borrowing, Iceland had over 1000% of its GDP in borrowing. The UK has 450%. Icelands economy was a hedge fund and yes its all insane.
Ireland hasn’t give a blanket guarantee, some bonds are getting an 80% haircut.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-11-22/anglo-irish-bank-says-2017-bondholders-to-swap-690-million-euros-of-notes.html
Your arguments seem to extend to calling them insane, well we will see which economy recovers quicker, Iceland or Ireland.
Peter – London/Krakow “Why all the hate for Ireland?”
Where on earth do you detect hate for Ireland? what an absurd thing to write. Possibly more absurd than your earlier statement that “Even Iceland didn’t let its banks collapse”
“sure they denied needing a bail out, but the Irish government were accurate they did not need it. The Irish banks do.
sure they denied needing a bail out, but the Irish government were accurate they did not need it. The Irish banks do”
The Irish Government have not been accurate about one thing in two years. Even as the IMF reps were coming through customs at Dublin Airport, the Irish Gov were denying they were coming.
You still do not get it. Of course the Irish Banks needs rescuing/restructuring. But the Irish Gov chose the most insane/dangerous strategy, a blanket guarantee by the State for the toxic debts. The Irish people will be picking up the tab for the losses on blatantly injudicious investment risk.
“Maybe you should direct your hate against your own government ministers who destroyed their Icelandic economy through their crass stupidity and arrogance.”
For hate, replace with opinions offered by me and supported by events, facts and figures. If you wish to offer another opinion then please do so. But in the interests of decent arguments, please think before replying with such statements as “Even Iceland didn’t let its banks collapse” :)
Just to clarify EU/ECB insanity,
Ireland has 1.2% ? of the GDP in the Eurozone.
Of all the money lent by the ECB in the Eurozone €516bn, some 31% or €165bn has been lent to Irish banks.
Peter London/Krakow says:
November 21, 2010 at 9:04 am
“You don’t explain what happens when the banks fail. But we know what happens to some extent. Iceland may have guaranteed its depositors, but the money deposited became worthless so its a rather pointless exercise. The Icelandic economy nose dived and will probably take a deacade to recover, even then the damage will still be remebered by trading partners.”
—————-
Trading partners are happy when they get paid.
If you are referring to a specific trade partner like banks/ bondholders, in the event of bank collapse. What happens is what usually happens, the next day the planes are full with lawyers and investment fund managers, flying into the crisis area and begin negotiations to re-structure/discount the debt.
Many economists in Ireland look to Iceland State as following a much better strategy to deal with failed banks and recover.
But that may rather more point to just how diabolically insane the EU/ Irish Government have acted these past 15 years and more especially that last 2 tears, on the crisis in Ireland.
“The Irish Minister of Finance and Prime Minister’s deluded optimism has been likened to Comical Ali, when he stood in front of the cameras. And with seriousness and enthusiasm, insisted that the Iraq army were victorious, the Americans crushed, just as the sight of US tanks came into the camera background.”
You fail to mention what Ali said afterwards; when told that there were an American armoured column in the city he said, ” I know, we have there right where we want them”. The plan was always to fight a war of attrition, which the Iraqi’s eventually won (or more specifically the Iranians).
Why all the hate for Ireland? sure they denied needing a bail out, but the Irish government were accurate they did not need it. The Irish banks do. Maybe you should direct your hate against your own government ministers who destroyed their Icelandic economy through their crass stupidity and arrogance.
http://www.icenews.is/index.php/2010/09/24/iceland-hopes-to-learn-from-malta-in-eu-accession-bid/#comment-332304
” The growth of democracy from the smallest political unit, the community, upward is probably critical if a state based on democracy and the rule of law is to remain stable over long period of time.
This assumes, however, that the leadership from above encourages the growth of a state based on democracy and the rule of law.
Democracy in the smallest political unit is only viable if the voter also has the right to make financial decisions for this political unit.
In a strong centralized state, where the smallest political units are merely the recipient of orders and money, democracy and the rule of law will sooner or later be undermined. ”
Just to come in with hit and run :
Bjarni did write :
>” I am actually quite relieved, that our constitution in Iceland gives us the ability to reverse through referendum, at least some of the “wrong” decisions our own government tries to make. ”
The current manfuacturing of consent going on with the National Meeting ( which was follow up to that Anthilll nonsense ) is worrying.
The power of the President for vetoe should be stregthened — not removed as centralizing power of professional politicians represented by Social Demicrats is talking about.
We need more referendum power of the voters with president as their protector, and the ability for ordinary voters to be able to bring initiatives up with a number of signatures.
This is like they do have strongly in Liechtenstein and in Switzerland.
We need to get this decentalized checks and balances back — this is our history here in Iceland, not this ” politicians known best ” nonsense.
You don’t explain what happens when the banks fail. But we know what happens to some extent. Iceland may have guaranteed its depositors, but the money deposited became worthless so its a rather pointless exercise. The Icelandic economy nose dived and will probably take a deacade to recover, even then the damage will still be remebered by trading partners.
All the countries banks are interlinked, if Ireland goes down the Uk (£4.5Trillion in debts) could go with it, plus the rest of the Euro zone. Now Ireland would be doubly f***ed as the UK is the majority of its exports. There would be a massive worldwide crash, global trade would seize up.
Paying a few percet more tax for the next decade is far preferable, even if it to support the b*st*rd banks.
Nobody asked Ireland to guarantee its banks, BTW, just as nobody but the Irish allowed them to to get out of control.
To Terry and Peter – London/Krakow:
There is no question, if any country decides to “let the banks fail”, the consequences would almost certainly be devastating. Not only would that country’s economy likely suffer badly and quite possibly crash, but also other countries (the other PIIGS for example) would likely fail also.
But we are probably getting awfully close to the end of the line here. There is an upper limit how much total banking losses can realistically be bailed out, especially when taxpayers in countries such as UK and Germany, have to provide the emergency bailouts to other “misbehaving” countries.
What the Irish government did, by not only offering full deposit guarantee, but also guarantee, at the height of the 2008 crash, to cover ALL the potential losses from the Irish banks. This we now know was a very dangerous decision, and it could possibly end up causing the total collapse of the Irish economy. The Irish government made this decision apparently without doing any serious due diligence on the banks loan portfolios. And then they had the gall to brag about it, that this was the “the cheapest bailout in the world”.
I am actually quite relieved, that our constitution in Iceland gives us the ability to reverse through referendum, at least some of the “wrong” decisions our own government tries to make. I am sure some people in Ireland and other countries, would have liked to have the same option available to them earlier.
Peter – London/Krakow “Even Iceland didn’t let its banks collapse, it nationalised them and guaranteed the local depositors. You think the banks should have collapsed completely and their assets handed over to the debtors?”
Au contraire, Iceland could not stop the banks failing but depositers were guaranteed.
The State could not save the Iceland banks even if it wanted to. The State guaranteed the deposits and in time the assets of the Bank go towards the rest of the creditors, according to the claim priority. What’s that called?
Bank liquidation?
Terry says:
”I wonder what that would been like, I’ve never heard any of the ‘let the banks fail’ brigade ever explain what the consequences would be”
What would happen is a rational approach to the problem, the depositers are guaranteed by the State and the sale of bank assets cover the deposit claim first, then the other claimants follow. What would happen is that the lenders would take the real and expected consequences of their defective diligence. As written in the contracts.
Terry says:
“It looks as if Ireland is going down, but it has not only sought to – but has protected, with its State guarantee – those of us depositing in their Banks, and for that I am grateful, and consequently feel an empathy and willingness to support them – unlike Knowless’s comment –”
What a load of crock, sorry to be so blunt.
You don’t know much about what has happened in Ireland. You are confusing deposit guarantees, with bondholder debt guarantees, with sovereign debt. You need to get more clarity on the fundamental issues, beyond what lies in a newspaper headline if you want to discuss this matter further.
Deposits were already guaranteed in Ireland and that guarantee net was widened to cover Eur 100k in Sept 2008. It had to be done to stop the flow of capital. It was about the only sane decision made by the Irish Gov. After that came the decision to guarantee all bondholder debt including subbordinated debt, by the State.
The IMF ECB multi billion dollar loan package has nothing to do with deposits. The deposits are already safe and guaranteed by State and bank’s assets. The IMF ECB multi billion dollar loan package has to do with covering Bondholder debt which is is owed to mainly UK, French and German Banks by the failed Irish banks and all to do with property speculation.
When the line is being peddled by UK papers about the UK taxpayer rescuing Ireland, it is a load of crock. The UK Gov would be providing a loan facility, a new credit card to pay off an old credit card debt owed to UK banks. The difference is, that the Irish state takes up the tab.
Interestingly, the Irish Gov guarantee for bank deposits in 2008 was also designed to attract extra UK depositers who were looking for a safer place. The Irish banks received a boost of liquidity in the form of deposits. Now much of the trust has evaporated. In the last few months, some EUR13bn has been withdrawn from Allied irish Bank mainly by UK depositers, both private & commercial.
The Irish Minister of Finance and Prime Minister’s deluded optimism has been likened to Comical Ali, when he stood in front of the cameras. And with seriousness and enthusiasm, insisted that the Iraq army were victorious, the Americans crushed, just as the sight of US tanks came into the camera background.
Bjarni said
”It is interesting though to hear the Irish government and bankers making the same kind of optimistic statements, and demonstrating the same type of “we are fine” attitude as their Icelandic counterparts did before our crash.
Well yes, but could you really expect them to shout ‘abandon ship – we are going down’?
It looks as if Ireland is going down, but it has not only sought to – but has protected, with its State guarantee – those of us depositing in their Banks, and for that I am grateful, and consequently feel an empathy and willingness to support them – unlike Knowless’s comment –
“ So spare us the ‘help Ireland’ sentiments..
Knowless said
“It is bizarre that the taxpayer of other countries in Europe might think that they assisting or helping ireland. The countries in the EU are merely providing another loan to Ireland to pay a loan to their own bondholders, which will be paid off by the Irish State”
Yes, RBS and Lloyds – already heavily supported by taxpayers are into Eire Banks – 84.5 billion.
” These bonds debts should have been let sink along with the Bank and the inflated property bubble that they were guaranteed by.”
So, potentially sink UK Banks, with contagion to other Banks/Countries?
Knowless, I’m just a punter who deposited in IceSave, but I think I’m asking the same question as Peter? -
”I wonder what that would been like, I’ve never heard any of the ‘let the banks fail’ brigade ever explain what the consequences would be.
Even Iceland didn’t let its banks collapse, it nationalised them and guaranteed the local depositors. You think the banks should have collapsed completely and their assets handed over to the debtors?
I wonder what that would been like, I’ve never heard any of the ‘let the banks fail’ brigade ever explain what the consequences would be.
The Irish banks had collapsed in Sept 2008, that does not mean the bulk of the debt related to that crash should fall to the citizens. The hardship placed on the Irish citizens has been the imposition of the responsibility of the worst performing non-sovereign debt, onto the state by a spineless. incompetent Government.
Sure there would have been some hardships on the State regardless, but nothing remotely close to the damage that will be inflicted by blanket State guarantee on all debt related to the collapsed inflated property values. Even rabid neo-liberal Angela Merkel said as much.
Bjarni
Ireland can’t be allowed to crash, the UK is lending £7 billion even though its not in the Euro. You could claim that its self interest but the fact is the PIIGS left to market rates would not be able to survive. There will probably have to be debt relief if Ireland can’t sustain the repayments, I wonder if bondholders will be forced to take a haircut – EU says no for three years.
The Irish are making noises about things being fine, and they are to a point but there is a slow run on the banks.
http://ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2010/11/19/410356/on-declining-irish-deposits/
So a bail out it is.
Question is whether they can keep their tax haven 12.5% corporate rate and the scam that allows Goggle etc to pay 1% tax in Ireland. Its a niggly point with the lenders.
To Terry,
No one in their right mind, would wish the Ireland economy to crash. As everyone in Iceland learned the hard way, we now know first-hand what the consequences of such a crash are, and the extreme hardship it places on large parts of the population that have lost their jobs, houses, pensions, savings, etc..
It is interesting though to hear the Irish government and bankers making the same kind of optimistic statements, and demonstrating the same type of “we are fine” attitude as their Icelandic counterparts did before our crash.
To Peter – London/Krakow,
The UK and Dutch governments unilaterally decided to pay out to all of the local Icesave depositors (with the exception of few hundred Dutch with over 100K). This was presumably done to protect their own banking system, and cover the losses of their own depositors.
The people of Iceland, never asked for this “loan”, and certainly never got any benefit from it. And since they have the constitutional right to vote on any laws, that are put to a referendum, they voiced their opinion on the law authorizing the deposit guarantee, very strongly when they turned it down 92% to 1.5%.
If there is a new agreement (Icesave III), it will have to pass through the Icelandic parliament again, and then the new law will almost certainly have to put to another nationial referendum. Only if that is passed, will the deposit guarantee by Icelandic government become legally valid and binding.
In the end, all this does not matter so much, as the UK/Dutch government will always be paid back most of what they want from the LBI (old Landsbanki) bankruptcy proceeds, as they should.
Terry says: Whilst some IceNews contributors have been long predicting the downfall of Ireland (misery loves company). Ireland has doggedly fought to meet its obligations and not default. I don’t pretend to know whether their course is economically sensible – but I admire that endure self inflicted hardship, in an endeavour to meet obligations to others, and should help be required, I would be happy for the UK to assist.”
There are not many in Ireland who would agree with you and would not share the admiration of a patently corrupt Irish Government who have managed to conspire to transform massive Bondholder debts and subordinated debt into Irish State Sovereign debt. It is bizarre that the taxpayer of other countries in Europe might think that they assisting or helping ireland. The countries in the EU are merely providing another loan to Ireland to pay a loan to their own bondholders, which will be paid off by the Irish State. UK bank RBS has £53bn outstanding loans in Ireland, or about 10% of its total loan book, while another UK bank, Lloyds has lent £31.5bn to Irish banks/property, or 5% of its books. British taxpayers own substantial stakes in both banks. These bonds debts should have been let sink along with the Bank and the inflated property bubble that they were guaranteed by. So spare us the ‘help Ireland’ sentiments.
The real crime has already been perpetrated for 2 years behind veil of lies and broken promises by the Irish Government…
from http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/nov/17/ireland-bailout-bond-investors
“Ireland decided to rescue its banks by making the taxpayer finance the rescue, instead of letting shareholders and bondholders take the loss. This was a big mistake.”
Peter – I was being frivolous (as usual : ) ) – floating the concept of responsibility, altruism and philanthropy, even when oneself is not doing well.
Whilst some IceNews contributors have been long predicting the downfall of Ireland (misery loves company). Ireland has doggedly fought to meet its obligations and not default. I don’t pretend to know whether their course is economically sensible – but I admire that endure self inflicted hardship, in an endeavour to meet obligations to others, and should help be required, I would be happy for the UK to assist.
A BBC World Service programme – Kilkenomics Festival of Comedy and Economics makes interesting listening. Although it’s on I-Player, I believe radio broadcasts are accessible to those outside the UK.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p00bt8m2/Business_Daily_The_Kilkenomics_festival/
Terry,
Foreign criminals have always been paid to go back home, I first heard about it twenty years ago. Ireland will be offered a loan which they will have to pay back with interest, not quite the same as Iceland who don’t want to pay interest or pay back the loan.
Foreign aid is AKA as ‘bribes to buy British exports’ and is good value for money.
Given recent events – the negotiations will probably result in Iceland’s debt being paid off by the UK……with additional compensation of course ; )
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11762636
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/8121682/Foreign-criminals-to-be-paid-1500-to-go-home.html
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/211685/Irish-bail-out-to-cost-UK-taxpayers-10bn
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1322361/SPENDING-REVIEW-2010-Foreign-aid-increase-37.html?ito=feeds-newsxml